How we can find peace without any meaning?

[pianistclare]

The meaning of peace is the heavenly church. The meaning of the “meaning” is hell.

What do you mean by this?
Are you using Google translate by any chance?

 

[Giovonni]

I agree with the fact that God caused creation.

Glad we agree here.

The laws of nature is a part of knowledge hence it cannot be created. I have a thread for that.

In your other thread you say knowledge is a set of facts which express reality. Knowledge according to your definition is reality. But then you say “hence knowledge cannot be created.” You are begging the question here by assuming reality isn’t created, it just existed. But I don’t buy that because it doesn’t answer the question why anything exists at all instead of nothing.

How God could be related to Meaning? You are a believer. Do you have any meaning? Why we, believer and unbeliever, are in such states following our emotions blindly? Where we are going? Why God didn’t grant us the meaning in the first place so we could live in peace?

My definition of meaning is different than yours. I define meaning as “purpose” as was defined earlier in the thread. Since you define meaning as “source of all motion”, asking why didn’t God grant us “source of all motion”, doesn’t make sense as a question.

As for why we follow our emotions, I think it is for survival and growth. We are spiritual beings in earthly bodies. Our time here is one where we struggle to survive. Out of this we grow through experience, physically, mentally and spiritually.

 

[RPRPsych]

In Russia, the chess piece we call the Bishop is known as the Elephant.

 

[MT1926]

That I agree.

You agree on what? I was trying to make the point that you keep turning the page by changing the definitions. Is that what you agree on?

I believe that meaning is the underlying concept which resides under the absolute truth. Truth stand upon absolute truth. Hence meaning is the source of all motions.

If an underlying concept resides under something else is it stil considered to be underlying. Also, how can meaning make anything move? I would think the desire for something would make you move before knowing what the meaning is.

God in your system of belief is the creator and sustainer of universe. This however is problematic since God create universe by eternal cause and move it by temporal cause. You cannot possibly have both cause in the same framework.

Why? I don’t see a problem with something eternal effecting something temporal. But agree that it would be problematic if God were temporal trying to effect something eternal.

I believe in God as creator but I believe that universe can sustain itself and can move based on laws of nature. Laws of nature is a part of truth and we are heading to find absolute truth and then meaning.

I will agree with you if you can tell me how the universe sustains itself, where the laws of nature come from and how they continue to work.

That is not correct because love and another emotions only cause motion. We on top of that need purpose since purpose give our motions directions. We on top of that need to expand our knowledge to understand truth, then absolute truth and finally meaning.

That is not correct.

How could I be incorrect. I rewrote your responses from prior posts.

Thanks for your praying.

Your welcome. Anytime.

 

[Bahman]

Glad we agree here.

Good.

In your other thread you say knowledge is a set of facts which express reality.

That is correct.

Knowledge according to your definition is reality.

That is incorrect. That is my mistake if I say so.

But then you say “hence knowledge cannot be created.” You are begging the question here by assuming reality isn’t created, it just existed.

Reality exist and it functions based laws of nature. It is functioning depends on the act of creation which define how things should move based on laws of nature. Laws of nature is simply a part of knowledge.

But I don’t buy that because it doesn’t answer the question why anything exists at all instead of nothing.

I think I express myself well in the previous comment.

My definition of meaning is different than yours. I define meaning as “purpose” as was defined earlier in the thread. Since you define meaning as “source of all motion”, asking why didn’t God grant us “source of all motion”, doesn’t make sense as a question.

Everything moves based on laws of nature and intervention of mind. Laws of nature are a part of knowledge. Emotions in us cause moves. Purpose gives us only a direction hence it cannot grant you meaning. Meaning to me is underneath of knowledge. It is something that gives meaning to why things are moving.

As for why we follow our emotions, I think it is for survival and growth. We are spiritual beings in earthly bodies. Our time here is one where we struggle to survive. Out of this we grow through experience, physically, mentally and spiritually.

All things you said is meaningless.

 

[Bahman]

You agree on what? I was trying to make the point that you keep turning the page by changing the definitions. Is that what you agree on?

I am so sorry. I am contemplating on the topic right now so my definition could slightly change.

If an underlying concept resides under something else is it stil considered to be underlying. Also, how can meaning make anything move? I would think the desire for something would make you move before knowing what the meaning is.

Laws of nature is part of the truth which cause things to move. Emotions cause us to move. Knowledge however give us direction, so called purpose. Meaning however is underlying the knowledge. Things keep moving unless they find state of rest, so called peace in us. That is however is not possible unless we find meaning.

Why? I don’t see a problem with something eternal effecting something temporal. But agree that it would be problematic if God were temporal trying to effect something eternal.

The act of sustaining something which is changing requires a temporal cause. God can only cause eternally since He is changeless. Hence God cannot possibly cause temporary. This can be shown by the following\

±---------------+
| S[sub]1[/sub] → S[sub]2[/sub] → S[sub]3[/sub] |
±---------------+
^
|

God’s eternal act
There is only one eternal act, vertical arrow, by God which leads it to creation. This however doesn’t provide any dynamic. Hence we need a temporal cause, horizontal arrow, to allow changes. God however as it was stated cannot be the source of temporal act.

I will agree with you if you can tell me how the universe sustains itself, where the laws of nature come from and how they continue to work.

Good.

If you reread and put together all of the answers you gave trying to argue everyone’s comments, you will find you actually answered your own question. You just refuse to accept your own answer.

I don’t think so. Could you please help me with that?

 

[Giovonni]

**

“In your other thread you say knowledge is a set of facts which express reality.”
That is correct.

“Knowledge according to your definition is reality.”
That is incorrect. That is my mistake if I say so.**

Saying one is correct and the other is incorrect is a contradiction. Your logic is flawed.

Bahman:

Reality exist and it functions based laws of nature. It is functioning depends on the act of creation which define how things should move based on laws of nature. Laws of nature is simply a part of knowledge.

Again you define knowledge as facts which express reality. So you’ve just stated that reality exists based on nature which is based on knowledge (facts of reality). This is circular reasoning.

Everything moves based on laws of nature and intervention of mind. Laws of nature are a part of knowledge. Emotions in us cause moves. Purpose gives us only a direction hence it cannot grant you meaning. Meaning to me is underneath of knowledge. It is something that gives meaning to why things are moving.

You say meaning gives meaning. That is circular reasoning.

You defined meaning earlier as “that which causes motion.” Here you say Emotion causes motion. Therefore you just answered your own question.

Of course, I’m sure you will redefine meaning and then say “its all part of Knowledge, which is based on the laws of nature”. This is one big thread full of changing definitions, flawed logic and circular reasoning.

I see now why you are confused. The whole conversation is meaningless and lacks knowledge since it has no basis in reality. lol

 

[MT1926]

I am so sorry. I am contemplating on the topic right now so my definition could slightly change.

I think this is the reason you are having so much difficult with these topics. You are not grounded with any definitions and therefore keep changing your mind based on your opinions. You following your own opinions is most likely the reason your religion is listed as wherever it may go. Or better yet wherever you decide to lead yourself.

Laws of nature is part of the truth which cause things to move. Emotions cause us to move. Knowledge however give us direction, so called purpose. Meaning however is underlying the knowledge. Things keep moving unless they find state of rest, so called peace in us. That is however is not possible unless we find meaning.

I have no idea where you are going with these statements. Anyhow, how does one find something (meaning) if one is unwilling to, or unable to, define it (meaning)?

The act of sustaining something which is changing requires a temporal cause. God can only cause eternally since He is changeless. Hence God cannot possibly cause temporary. This can be shown by the following\

±---------------+
| S[sub]1[/sub] → S[sub]2[/sub] → S[sub]3[/sub] |
±---------------+
^
|

God’s eternal act
There is only one eternal act, vertical arrow, by God which leads it to creation. This however doesn’t provide any dynamic. Hence we need a temporal cause, horizontal arrow, to allow changes. God however as it was stated cannot be the source of temporal act.

I have no clue where you are going with this. Is this out of a book somewhere or your own creation? I tried googling it and all I get are results for heart beats. Can you give some other evidence why something eternal can’t affect something temporal?

I don’t think so. Could you please help me with that?

As I mentioned earlier:

Based on this response you just stated that we “move as a result of our emotions”. If we take this response and add it to your above response we get:

1. I can define meaning as something which is the source of all motions.
2. We know that we move as a result of our emotions.
3. Love is simply an emotion.
4. Love being an emotion can cause motion.
5. The motion caused by love can lead to meaning.
6. The meaning that results from Love can grant strength and peace once you find it.

If you reread and put together all of the answers you gave trying to argue everyone’s comments, you will find you actually answered your own question. You just refuse to accept your own answer.

Other than reshowing you what you already stated in your earlier posts I don’t think I can do much more until you decide to give us your definitive definition of the word meaning?

 

[Bahman]

Saying one is correct and the other is incorrect is a contradiction. Your logic is flawed.

The correct definition of knowledge is: Knowledge is a set of facts which express reality. I don’t understand you. I am just defining knowledge.

Again you define knowledge as facts which express reality. So you’ve just stated that reality exists based on nature which is based on knowledge (facts of reality). This is circular reasoning.

No, I just mentioned that reality moves based on laws of nature and laws of nature is a part of knowledge. I don’t understand why this is circular reasoning.

You say meaning gives meaning. That is circular reasoning.

No, I am not saying that meaning gives meaning. I am saying that meaning is underneath of knowledge.

You defined meaning earlier as “that which causes motion.” Here you say Emotion causes motion. Therefore you just answered your own question.

What question?

Of course, I’m sure you will redefine meaning and then say “its all part of Knowledge, which is based on the laws of nature”. This is one big thread full of changing definitions, flawed logic and circular reasoning.

That is not correct. You understand things better if you follow the thread more carefully.

I see now why you are confused. The whole conversation is meaningless and lacks knowledge since it has no basis in reality. lol

That is not true.

 

[Bahman]

I think this is the reason you are having so much difficult with these topics. You are not grounded with any definitions and therefore keep changing your mind based on your opinions. You following your own opinions is most likely the reason your religion is listed as wherever it may go. Or better yet wherever you decide to lead yourself.

No. That has nothing to do with my religion. As I mentioned I am currently contemplating on subject matter so my definition can slightly change based on my understanding.

I have no idea where you are going with these statements. Anyhow, how does one find something (meaning) if one is unwilling to, or unable to, define it (meaning)?

I can define meaning as the source of all motions. That is true because meaning is underneath of the knowledge and laws of nature is a part of knowledge.

I have no clue where you are going with this. Is this out of a book somewhere or your own creation? I tried googling it and all I get are results for heart beats. Can you give some other evidence why something eternal can’t affect something temporal?

I have a thread on this topic. The idea however is simple. God is in state of eternal now. So he can only perform one act since performing the second act requires temporarily and this is against the fact that God is in state of timeless. So God can only perform one eternal act which is creation. The eternal act however does not allow any dynamic to universe so we need temporal act which this is impossible to be performed by God as it was discussed.

As I mentioned earlier:

Other than reshowing you what you already stated in your earlier posts I don’t think I can do much more until you decide to give us your definitive definition of the word meaning?

I already defined meaning as the main source of all motion.

 

[LethalMouse]

You can be a follower and get the reward for following if what is promised to you is true. You can also take your spiritual journey alone. So it is all up to us.

The “what?” Earlier was because what you say here is not congruent with the post.

I see sort of what you are saying, but you are basically saying that we have a choice of the love of God I spoke of or to reject it for our own purposes… which is the definition of our choices.

My post explained the peace that comes from non rejection and the fact that your “stand alone” theory is why you are making a thread asking where peace is to be found. It is found not alone but with God. If you reject God, then you reject the very peace you speak of…

 

[Bahman]

The “what?” Earlier was because what you say here is not congruent with the post.

I see sort of what you are saying, but you are basically saying that we have a choice of the love of God I spoke of or to reject it for our own purposes… which is the definition of our choices.

My post explained the peace that comes from non rejection and the fact that your “stand alone” theory is why you are making a thread asking where peace is to be found. It is found not alone but with God. If you reject God, then you reject the very peace you speak of…

The main question of this thread is about meaning. The state of peace is granted once you find meaning. How being in presence of God could grant you any meaning?

 

[LethalMouse]

The main question of this thread is about meaning. The state of peace is granted once you find meaning. How being in presence of God could grant you any meaning?

God = Meaning

The simplest direct equation possible…

 

[LethalMouse]

In fact Bahman, what you are searching for is God.

You just keep giving different words and meaning in a way to reject that it is God.

You say Peace and God is there waiting for you.

You say Meaning and God is there waiting for you.

You say Truth and God is there waiting for you.

You say Who, What, When, Where, How or Why and God is there waiting for you.

You ask how can God be and God just is.

You ask where God is and He is there.

You say God is this or that but still God is God unaffected by it.

You say Satan rules you but you ignore that like a gang leader who “runs” your terrritory, you are still subject to the Nation. That gang leader for all his powers still succumbs to laws and inevitably ends his time in jail.

Like the gang leader who has no power when the task force comes, Satan has none when God is involved.

Find God and you find the peace, the meaning, the truth, and that which reduces Satans rule to nothing.

 

[Bahman]

God = Meaning

The simplest direct equation possible…

Do you know what is the meaning considering the fact that you are strong believer?

 

[PraiseChrist]

God in his Mercy created us. That gives meaning. We reject him, he takes the blame and dies for us, so that we may be with him forever. That gives meaning.

What do you define “meaning”, as, anyway?

“He who has God lacks nothing. God alone suffices”, as St Teresa of Avila said.
We have full happiness, peace, love, joy, fruits of the Holy Spirit, ect., in God.

God is Love

 

[Bahman]

In fact Bahman, what you are searching for is God.

You just keep giving different words and meaning in a way to reject that it is God.

You say Peace and God is there waiting for you.

You say Meaning and God is there waiting for you.

You say Truth and God is there waiting for you.

You say Who, What, When, Where, How or Why and God is there waiting for you.

You ask how can God be and God just is.

You ask where God is and He is there.

You say God is this or that but still God is God unaffected by it.

You say Satan rules you but you ignore that like a gang leader who “runs” your terrritory, you are still subject to the Nation. That gang leader for all his powers still succumbs to laws and inevitably ends his time in jail.

Like the gang leader who has no power when the task force comes, Satan has none when God is involved.

Find God and you find the peace, the meaning, the truth, and that which reduces Satans rule to nothing.

Please read post #95.

 

[LethalMouse]

Do you know what is the meaning considering the fact that you are strong believer?

Perhaps the equation makes more sense if I write it in reverse?

Meaning = God

Simply and completely, that is it.

 

[LethalMouse]

Please read post #95.

Please read post #98

 

[PraiseChrist]

Do you know what is the meaning considering the fact that you are strong believer?

Yes, because until we rest in God, our hearts are restless