Info on SDA

[me_again]

Regarding baptism, the Bible says that in coming to Jesus, we should “repent” (Acts 2:38) and “be converted” (Acts 3:19). These aren’t things that infants can do. Baptism is a conscious decision where action is taken to affirm a desire to be dead to sin and alive in Jesus Christ.

BibleTruth, the bible also says that “whole households” were baptized. In Catholic tradition, the baptism of “whole families” included the infants and children of parents who were accepting the Lord Jesus Christ. It was (and is) the responsibility of these parents to properly raise their children in the Catholic faith.

“Catholic” means universal. Thus, it is the universal Christian faith e.g. there was only one Christian Church, prior to the protesters.

BibleTruth, you are correct when you note that the apostles didn’t specifically write the term “infant baptism” in the scriptures. Conversely, the apostles didn’t specifically write that Jesus did not have wives or children, yet through the teachings of the apostles, we know that Jesus didn’t have wives or children. This is an example of Catholic tradition. Thus, you accept part of the Catholic tradition (that Jesus didn’t have wives or children), but you reject other parts of Catholic tradition (that whole families were baptized, to include the children of the parents). What the apostles taught is is called “Sacred Tradition” and what the apostles and prophets wrote is called “Sacred Scriptures.”

 

[me_again]

Infant baptism is just another form of pagan sun worship.

That is not written in the bible and it is not a part of apostolic teaching. Would you kindly present your source?

 

[me_again]

In some pagan cultures, they also sacrificed children to the sun-god Molech through fire sacrifices (Ezekiel 23:37-39).

That is correct, but that was before the birth of Christ in the Old Testament**;** it has nothing to do with Christianity.

 

[BibleTruth]

RonTheNewJew, you pointed out that Paul commanded the converted Pagans to not let anyone judge them about the Saturday sabbath issue. Should anyone else (besides the converted pagans) be judged for worshiping on Sunday?

Catholicism interprets to be the Lord’s Day to be Sunday, due to Jesus’ resurrection? Do you believe this?

If I may join in…

We will be judged by what we do with the light that we receive. It’s not up to us to judge each other because none of us are without sin.

While Catholicism interprets the Lord’s day to be Sunday, the Bible clearly states that it’s the seventh-day Sabbath (Is. 58:13-14). The reason this is pointed out in Revelation 1:10 is because the Sabbath issue, which is all about obedience to God’s authority, will be the dividing issue between those who choose God and those who choose Lucifer in the last days.

This is taken from A Doctrinal Catechism, Stephen Keenan, 3rd ed. p. 174:

Question: Have you any other way of proving that the [Catholic] Church has the power to institute festivals of precept?

Answer: Had she not such power, she could not have done that in which all modern religionists agree with her; - she could not have substituted the observance of Sunday the first day of the week, for the observance of Saturday the seventh day, a change for which there is no Scriptural authority.

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“No! Keep the first day of the week, and Lo, the whole entire civilized world bows in reverent obedience to the command of the whole Catholic Church . . . it is the Mark of her authority to over-rule GOD’s Law.” - Father Enright (History of the Sabbath, p. 802)

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“Sunday is our MARK of authority … the church is above the Bible and this transference of Sabbath observance is proof of that fact.”

• Catholic Record, Ontario, Sept. 1, 1921

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Be blessed.

 

[me_again]

Lucifer’s deceptions run deep. The success in deception is in people not knowing they’re being deceived. He has been successful in deceiving the whole world. Those of us who remain in the darkness will continue to be deceived.

Ellen White “channeled” demonic spirits who revealed to her false doctrines and heresies, such as the concept that “Jesus ceased to exist and had no consciousness for three days when He died on the cross and when His mortal body was in the grave.” Jesus is God and His conscious divinity cannot cease to exist. This SDA doctrine of soul sleep is a demonic heresy. This SDA teaching that the Creator of the universe ceased to exist is rubbish. The devil delights in deceiving Adventists with doctrines of demons.

 

[BibleTruth]

That is correct, but that was before the birth of Christ in the Old Testament**;** it has nothing to do with Christianity.

Hence my point. These are things that were adopted into Christianity by the papal authority.

The bigger picture is that Lucifer knows Scripture better than any of us. He knew that the Messiah would come to save people from sin. Because of this, Lucifer has deployed a multitude of counterfeit “saviors” throughout all pagan religions and cultures. He’s also done this through the idea of a holy mother and child.

Catholicism packages all of these pagan symbols and puts Christian names on them. The results of this are that people lose confidence in Jesus Christ as our Savior because they say He’s just the Christian form of these various pagan worship systems.

 

[BibleTruth]

Ellen White “channeled” demonic spirits who revealed to her false doctrines and heresies, such as the concept that “Jesus ceased to exist and had no consciousness for three days when He died on the cross and when His mortal body was in the grave.” Jesus is God and His conscious divinity cannot cease to exist. This SDA doctrine of soul sleep is a demonic heresy. This SDA teaching that the Creator of the universe ceased to exist is rubbish. The devil delights in deceiving Adventists with doctrines of demons.

Where are you getting this from?

The Bible reveals that death is a form of sleep. It’s clear Bible doctrine.

“Put not your trust in princes, nor in the son of man, in whom there is no help. His breath goeth forth, he returneth to his earth; in that very day his thoughts perish”. Psalm 146:3-4.

“For the living know that they will die, but the dead know nothing; they have no further reward, and even the memory of them is forgotten. Their love, their hate and their jealousy have long since vanished; never again will they have a part in anything that happens under the sun”. Ecclesiastes 9:5-6 (NIV).

“For the grave cannot praise you, death cannot sing your praise; those who go down to the pit cannot hope for your faithfulness. The living, the living—they praise you, as I am doing today; fathers tell their children about your faithfulness”. Isaiah 38:18-19 (NIV).

"It is not the dead who praise the LORD, those who go down to silence; it is we who extol the LORD, both now and forevermore. Praise the LORD”. Psalm 115:17-18 (NIV).

"For in death there is no remembrance of You; in the grave who will give You thanks?” Psalm 6:5 (NKJV).

In John 11:11-14, we see the story of Lazarus, who had died. Obviously, Jesus knew of Lazarus’ true condition, but in verse 11 He states, “Our friend Lazarus has fallen asleep; but I am going there to wake him up" (NIV). Jesus’ disciples didn’t yet understand what Jesus meant by this and their response was seen in verse 12, “Lord, if he sleeps, he will get better” (NIV). Verse 13 tells us that, “Jesus had been speaking of his death, but his disciples thought he meant natural sleep” (NIV). And finally, in verse 14 we read, “So then he told them plainly, Lazarus is dead…” (NIV).

When Jesus died on the cross, He took on the burden of sin for all mankind. When He cried out to the Father, “why have you forsaken me?”, it was because sin had separated Him from God; remember, Jesus was fully God and fully man. Something you should know is that the crucifix with Jesus’ emaciated body on the cross and what you refer to as the Eucharist are Lucifer’s attempts to keep Jesus dead and replace Him with the papal system…the Vicar of the Son of God!

Stay faithful.

 

[KathleenGee]

Tradition is the work of the Holy Spirit incorporating, incarnating the Word of God into a given culture.

People think rituals are evil. People think having an international central authority of a universal belief system such as the Catholic Church is evil. But they can. Their churches can. They can have their rituals. People think the Catholic Church is evil because our priests are celibate. People think our sex crimes come from celibacy.

People who say such things about the Church are misinformed, and deliberately so.

We cannot use the Word of God to say I am better than you, only I do it right. The Church is not about me. It is about our common, shared faith, how it is preserved, and how we live it out every day.

 

[RonTheNewJew]

For the first 300 years of Christianity, there was no Bible as we know it today. Christians had the Old Testament Septuagint, and literally hundreds of other books from which to choose. The Catholic Church realized early on that she had to decide which of these books were inspired and which ones weren’t. The debates raged between theologians, Bishops, and Church Fathers, for several centuries as to which books were inspired and which ones weren’t. In the meantime, several Church Councils or Synods, were convened to deal with the matter, notably, Rome in 382, Hippo in 393, and Carthage in 397 and 419. The debates sometimes became bitter on both sides. One of the most famous was between St. Jerome, who felt the seven books were not canonical, and St. Augustine who said they were. Protestants who write about this will invariably mention St. Jerome and his opposition, and conveniently omit the support of St. Augustine. I must point out here that Church Father’s writings are not infallible statements, and their arguments are merely reflections of their own private opinions. When some say St. Jerome was against the inclusion of the seven books, they are merely showing his personal opinion of them. Everyone is entitled to his own opinion. However,** A PERSONS PRIVATE OPINION DOES NOT CHANGE THE TRUTH AT ALL.** There are always three sides to every story, this side, that side, and the side of truth. Whether Jerome’s position, or Augustine’s position was the correct position, it had to be settled by a third party, and that third party was the Catholic Church.

thecatholictreasurechest.com/canon.htm

PAX DOMINI

Shalom Aleichem

The Jews were the writers of the Bible. Not the Catholic Church. The simple word, “caholic” began to be used to describe the extent to which Torah-observant Judeo-Christianity was being spread to the then known world, which was tiny by comparison to what is known about today’s world. In today’ world, the Lutherans, Baptists, Methodists, Presbyterians, and certainly the Seventh-day Adventists, Mormons and Catholics are all “catholic” in the sense that they are evangelizing the whole world.

The word, “catholic,” in reference to an organized religious entity, only began to be used in approximately the time-period from around 600 AD. Before AD 400, there were three Christian “patriarchates.” They were centered in what is today, Consantinople, another in Alexandria, Egypt, and Rome. As could be expected because they were mere human beings, politics and money got in the way of peaceful relationships between the three: competition!

The Roman Church had faced massive persecution during the first couple of hundred years after Jesus’ ascension because the non-Christian Jews were in rebellion against the Roman Empire. The non-monotheistic Romans persecuted the Jews because of the rebellion. Judeo-Christians attended synagogue services while simultaneously worshipping Jesus. They did this on the Sabbath, and during the annual holy days and festivals of the Lord according to the lunar calendar set up by God. The Romans could not tell the two apart. It was then when the non-Christian Jews demanded that those Jews who followed Jesus’ example of non-violence fight the Roman pagans, side-by-side, that Christian Jews and some Gentile converts to Judeo-Christianity began pulling away from the religion as Christ set it up while yet here on earth at Capernaum, some distance from Jerusalem.

The big argument became one of whether believers should continue to keep the Passover, or start observing “Easter Sunday.” At first, the Roman patriarchate continued observing what they today call “the Jewish Sabbath.” It was not “Jewish.” It, along with the rest of the Ten Commandments, came from God and was given to Moses as God had written it on the Tables of Stone. The specific behaviors required to keep the Ten Commandments are fully described in the rest of the Torah. Each specific law, local civil ordinanc, statute or judgment is traceable to one or more of the Ten Commandments. That includes the Fourth Commandment to remember to keep holy the seventh day (of the week) as the Sabbath. All of God’s annual sabbaths and the pilgrim holy convocations (now away from Jerusalem because of Jesus’ example at Capernaum), come together under the Fourth Commandment.

Shalom

PS. Where did this idea of the Sabbath Command being the “third” Commandment come from?

 

[BibleTruth]

That is not written in the bible and it is not a part of apostolic teaching. Would you kindly present your source?

Here’s one source that associates child baptism to paganism: jstor.org/pss/1256265

The whole act is a remnant of pagan worship. Pagan worship is all about worshiping Lucifer through the sun. It’s why he established sun worship in his kingdom. Lucifer instituted it in many cultures before the time of the incarnate Jesus Christ. It’s a plot to obscure the reality that Jesus is the way, the truth and the life. Lucifer wants to be in the place of Jesus and is doing everything he can to make that happen. This is why most Christians don’t really recognize who Jesus really is and what He’s done and is doing for us.

Most Christians believe that the work of atonement was finished at the cross. Jesus’ death on the cross is the fulfillment of the sacrificial lamb in the sanctuary service. This began the process of salvation. It’s how we become justified (treated just-as-if-i’d never sinned). After the animal was sacrificed, the blood had to be taken into the tabernacle everyday to be sprinkled throughout. This is the process of sanctification. Once a year, there would be a day of atonement where the sanctuary and the people were cleansed spiritually. This represents our glorification by God.

We’re now living in the fulfillment of the day of atonement, where Jesus is completing the work of bringing His people back into union and harmony with the Father. This is why the Bible refers to Jesus as the author and finisher of our faith. He authored the process of salvation on the cross, but finishes it in the heavenly sanctuary (Heb. 8-10).

Meanwhile, most of the earth is still ignorant to these biblical truths and is under Lucifer’s deceptions. The beautiful thing is that God knows that most of us are being deceived, which is why He acknowledges that His people are in these systems (Rev. 18:4). He’s giving each one of us with access to His word and His truth a chance to come out of these systems so He can have the symbolic 144,000 to vindicate His character in front of the entire universe before Jesus returns. His amazing grace is overwhelming!

Lucifer can’t and won’t save us; he is only out to destroy us because he knows God loves us. We have a choice to make…Lucifer or God. Lucifer’s ways are of this world and are carried out by traditions of men, but God’s ways are revealed to us in His word.

 

[RonTheNewJew]

RonTheNewJew, you pointed out that Paul commanded the converted Pagans to not let anyone judge them about the Saturday sabbath issue. Should anyone else (besides the converted pagans) be judged for worshiping on Sunday?

Catholicism interprets to be the Lord’s Day to be Sunday, due to Jesus’ resurrection? Do you believe this?

No one should be judged for worshipping on either day. Problem is that people have not been very gracious to each other relating to the Sabbath issue. For example, in Germany about a year ago, Catholic Church leaders, and Lutheran leaders influenced their respective memberships to use their political influence and pass Sunday closing legislation which is now in force. What this has done to Jewish and Seventh-day Adventist store and shop owners is force them to keep their businesses (which are their sources of livelihood, closed for two days per week,rather than just one. Catholics, Lutherans, and others who observe Sunday can stay open and earn profits for six days rather than just the five days each week afforded to Jews and Seventh-day Adventists.

We Jews have always worhipped God on the Shabbat (seventh-day Sabbath), and not just rested on that day. So have Seventh-day Adventists. The Advenists also believe in doing righteous works on the Sabbath day, helping the needy and destitute which is something that ortodox Jews could do well to emulate if they truly wanted to keep the Torah.

As far as which day is “the Lord’s day,” Jesus said “The Son of Man is Lord also of the Sabbath day.” He was then speaking of the seventh-day Sabbath which He, in His pre-incarnated state as God the Son, gave to Moses on Mount Sinai as part of the Ten Commandments. Six days to labor, but the seventh day is the Sabbath. The Jews know which day is God’s holy Sabbath day. It has never changed.

The Sabbath day is “the Lord’s day,” by Jesus’ own words. The Resurrection Day was, and in commemoration, is the “third day” of Passover which day happens on a different day each year. Not the first day of the week except when the third day of Passover happens on a Sunday.

Shalom

 

[BibleTruth]

Tradition is the work of the Holy Spirit incorporating, incarnating the Word of God into a given culture.

People think rituals are evil. People think having an international central authority of a universal belief system such as the Catholic Church is evil. But they can. Their churches can. They can have their rituals. People think the Catholic Church is evil because our priests are celibate. People think our sex crimes come from celibacy.

People who say such things about the Church are misinformed, and deliberately so.

We cannot use the Word of God to say I am better than you, only I do it right. The Church is not about me. It is about our common, shared faith, how it is preserved, and how we live it out every day.

Hello…

Just because someone establishes a tradition doesn’t give that tradition authority. God’s word is the authority. Jesus says in John 17:17 that God’s word is truth. Anything that’s not based on that foundation of that authority is error. This is why the Bereans searched the Scriptures to see if what Paul was telling them was true (Acts 17:11).

There’s nothing wrong with a tradition if it’s in line with God’s word. For example, in the SDA church, we have communion in remembrance of Jesus as He instructed. This is a tradition that has its foundation in God’s word. It’s not a substitute for God’s word and it doesn’t supersede God’s word. What we don’t do is make the claim that the pastor (priest) can call down Jesus from heaven and have His body transubstantiate (sp) into the “host” to have His body literally broken again and again on a daily basis. This doctrine is not in line with Scripture. Hebrews 10:14 says “For by one offering he hath perfected for ever them that are sanctified.” Supposedly breaking Jesus’ body everyday and keeping Him nailed to a crucifix is satanic. It’s what Lucifer wants to do so that you won’t know the true and living Lord and Savior Jesus Christ.

There are some traditions that the SDA church has adopted that are not biblical. Trust me…no religions are exempt from Lucifer’s deceptions! Rev. 13:3 says that “all the world” will wonder after the beast. For example, there’s nothing in the Bible that gives us a reason to wear a wedding ring. The wedding ring is strictly pagan. But, in our manual, we’ve “authorized” the wearing of wedding rings!

I don’t condemn people; I love people. I condemn false systems, whatever they are. My salvation comes through my relationship with Jesus Christ, as it says in His word, and not through traditions of men that are out of harmony with His word.

 

[me_again]

Infant baptism is just another form of pagan sun worship.
me again;6800139:

That is not written in the bible and it is not a part of apostolic teaching. Would you kindly present your source?
BibleTruth;6800744:

Here’s one source that associates child baptism to paganism: jstor.org/pss/1256265

That source simply indicates that that’s the opinion of Eleanor Henrietta Hull (1860-1935). However, she provides no reference to where she obtained that personal opinion from. Any Tom, Dick or Harry can publish a book with their opinion in it, as Eleanor Hull and Ellen White have done, but that doesn’t make it scholarly and doesn’t give it credibility. Hitler wrote Mein Kampf, but it simply reflected his opinions and it had no scholarly value.

Can you please provide a scholarly source for this opinion? A scholarly source from one of the apostolic Church fathers would be a good start.

 

[BibleTruth]

That source simply indicates that that’s the opinion of Eleanor Henrietta Hull (1860-1935). However, she provides no reference to where she obtained that personal opinion from. Any Tom, Dick or Harry can publish a book with their opinion in it, as Eleanor Hull and Ellen White have done, but that doesn’t make it scholarly and doesn’t give it credibility. Hitler wrote Mein Kampf, but it simply reflected his opinions and it had no scholarly value.

Can you please provide a scholarly source for this opinion? A scholarly source from one of the apostolic Church fathers would be a good start.

“In this mysterious Babylonian Religious System, Nimrod and Semiramis, along with their priests, were the only ones who understood ‘The great mysteries of God’ and since it was the only true religion… all others were false… therefore, only the Babylonian Priests could forgive and absolve sins…and administer salvation. Salvation could be achieved thru various Sacraments performed during the person’s life time. These SACRAMENTS were so-called ‘Channels of grace’ whereby salvation could be achieved. These Sacraments, necessary to salvation …began at birth with Infant Baptism, other sacraments throughout life, ending with a final anointing with oil at death to prepare one for the hereafter. Now Since the Babylonian Priest was the only one who could administer these ‘sacraments’, the person was ‘bound’ to the Babylonian system helplessly for life! The first essential sacrament Semiramis taught was Baptism by water. The fact that such “Baptism” was practiced 2000 years before it was even mentioned and practiced in Christianity is an established fact, and it can be traced right back to Babylon and Semiramis herself! The ancient historian Bryant (vol.3 p2l,84) traces this pagan baptism back to the practice of commemorating Noah and his 3 sons deliverance thru the waters of the flood, emerging from the ark and entering a New life. To commemorate this event, the Priests of Nimrod would ‘baptize’ new-born infants the fathers chose to keep, and they would become ‘born-again’ and become members of the Babylonian Mystery Religion. (Hislop,Two Babylons, p134)” - jesus-is-savior.com/False%20Doctrines/infant_baptism_exposed.htm

A Jesuit priest is more likely who wrote Mein Kampf.

 

[me_again]

“In this mysterious Babylonian Religious System, Nimrod and Semiramis, along with their priests, were the only ones who understood ‘The great mysteries of God’ and since it was the only true religion… all others were false… therefore, only the Babylonian Priests could forgive and absolve sins…and administer salvation. Salvation could be achieved thru various Sacraments performed during the person’s life time. These SACRAMENTS were so-called ‘Channels of grace’ whereby salvation could be achieved. These Sacraments, necessary to salvation …began at birth with Infant Baptism, other sacraments throughout life, ending with a final anointing with oil at death to prepare one for the hereafter. Now Since the Babylonian Priest was the only one who could administer these ‘sacraments’, the person was ‘bound’ to the Babylonian system helplessly for life! The first essential sacrament Semiramis taught was Baptism by water. The fact that such “Baptism” was practiced 2000 years before it was even mentioned and practiced in Christianity is an established fact, and it can be traced right back to Babylon and Semiramis herself! The ancient historian Bryant (vol.3 p2l,84) traces this pagan baptism back to the practice of commemorating Noah and his 3 sons deliverance thru the waters of the flood, emerging from the ark and entering a New life. To commemorate this event, the Priests of Nimrod would ‘baptize’ new-born infants the fathers chose to keep, and they would become ‘born-again’ and become members of the Babylonian Mystery Religion. (Hislop,Two Babylons, p134)” - jesus-is-savior.com/False%20Doctrines/infant_baptism_exposed.htm

The above cut-and-paste from a kooky website (here) still does not provide a scholarly source. Any Tom, Dick or Harry can cut-and-paste from a kooky website and, equally important to note, anyone can create a non-scholarly website with any message on it.

The question is repeated**:** Can you kindly provide a scholarly reference to support your claim that infant baptism is equated to worshiping the sun?

 

[me_again]

A Jesuit priest is more likely who wrote Mein Kampf.

That is highly unlikely.

 

[BibleTruth]

The above cut-and-paste from a kooky website (here) still does not provide a scholarly source. Any Tom, Dick or Harry can cut-and-paste from a kooky website and, equally important to note, anyone can create a non-scholarly website with any message on it.

The question is repeated**:** Can you kindly provide a scholarly reference to support your claim that infant baptism is equated to worshiping the sun?

You can read the Two Babylons yourself if you’d like: biblebelievers.com/babylon/

 

[BibleTruth]

That is highly unlikely.

Check your history. You don’t know the purpose, reach and influence of the Jesuit Order of the RCC.

 

[greggy53]

Check your history. You don’t know the purpose, reach and influence of the Jesuit Order of the RCC.

Ah, here the informed SDA educates the ignorant Catholic about how little he knows of the "true " history of the Church. This is a grand deception on their leaders part. They have re-written Christian history in their own image to suit their own purposes with no histrorical evidence whatsoever to back their claims. They just invented the lies then published them as truth in order to decieve as many as possible. Real historical, authenticated documents tell us that the early Christians worshipped on Sunday. They tell us the Christian Church was first refered to as Catholic in about 110 AD. The Mass was described in detail in a letter written about 160 AD. We can go on and on but unlike our SDA friends we can cite real authenticated documents to back our assertions. The SDA decievers prey on the weak and the ignorant. The history of Christianity is well documented and available for all to read and Catholics that know their faith are well armed against these vipers.

 

[greggy53]

It is a well documented historical fact that Hitler wrote Mein Kampf will in prison in the 1930’s. I suppose you also believe that Jesuits murdered Abraham Lincoln??
Why do people listen to such garbage? Are they so full of hate for something that they are willing to believe the most ridiculous lies about it?