Info on SDA

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Ah, here the informed SDA educates the ignorant Catholic about how little he knows of the "true " history of the Church. This is a grand deception on their leaders part. They have re-written Christian history in their own image to suit their own purposes with no histrorical evidence whatsoever to back their claims. They just invented the lies then published them as truth in order to decieve as many as possible. Real historical, authenticated documents tell us that the early Christians worshipped on Sunday. They tell us the Christian Church was first refered to as Catholic in about 110 AD. The Mass was described in detail in a letter written about 160 AD. We can go on and on but unlike our SDA friends we can cite real authenticated documents to back our assertions. The SDA decievers prey on the weak and the ignorant. The history of Christianity is well documented and available for all to read and Catholics that know their faith are well armed against these vipers.
Please present the evidence to support your claims. Please explain how the SDA church has re-written Christian history to suit our own purposes. What are our purposes if not to brings God’s truth to light? What do we have to gain from the world in proclaiming the truth that we have? Perhaps you haven’t realized it but being an SDA Christian is not a glamorous position to be in because we have to share harsh, cutting Bible truths that most people don’t want to hear or accept.

What’s interesting is that at no point do we lift up any man (or woman) in the place of God. That’s simply not the case in Catholicism where the pope is exalted as is Mary. It doesn’t take an SDA to realize these things or point them out. There are no false, unsubstantiated claims in making these statements - it’s historical fact.

Our only goal is to lift up Jesus Christ and to prepare the world for His return. Ironically, Lucifer is doing the same thing through his counterfeit religious system.

The following statement is from a Jesuit priest:

“I believe that the Messiah whom we await, whom we all without any doubt await, is the universal Christ; that is to say, the Christ of evolution.” -Pierre Teilhard de Chardin, as quoted in “Teilhard de Chardin: Christianity and Evolution,” Spiritual Conspiracies Project Journal: 56. My Christ is the God of Creation!

Lest you forget, “And no marvel; for Satan himself is transformed into an angel of light” (2 Corinthians 11:14).

I’m not sure what information you’re citing in reference to Sunday because the Catholic Church admits changing the day of Sabbath observance from the seventh to the first day. That’s documented fact that’s been quoted by the highest levels within Catholicism.

Reality: The system that has deceived you is the system that Lucifer has employed to deceive you. When he manifests himself as an angel of light, he will be welcomed as “the Cosmic Christ” and will set in motion the final events of our age. Those who will have decided to remain living in deception (although at this point, they’ll be willing participants) will receive the mark of Lucifer’s authority by accepting enforced Sunday worship and rejecting the authority of God by turning their backs on His Sabbath.
 
It is a well documented historical fact that Hitler wrote Mein Kampf will in prison in the 1930’s. I suppose you also believe that Jesuits murdered Abraham Lincoln??
Why do people listen to such garbage? Are they so full of hate for something that they are willing to believe the most ridiculous lies about it?
Because the “garbage” has proven to be true. Personally, I don’t hate anyone. I hate false, erroneous systems because they only seek to obscure the truth about Jesus Christ.

Of course, there are many sources who disagree:with you:

abelard.org/hitler/hitler.php
rense.com/general39/nazije.htm.

But I know…unless it comes from a Catholic Father, you won’t believe any of it.
 
Why do people listen to such garbage? Are they so full of hate for something that they are willing to believe the most ridiculous lies about it?
Amen! Yet why do so many non Catholics feel the need to convince themselves to express oneself here? Is there some one else or thing behind it?
 
Because the “garbage” has proven to be true. Personally, I don’t hate anyone. I hate false, erroneous systems because they only seek to obscure the truth about Jesus Christ.

Of course, there are many sources who disagree:with you:

abelard.org/hitler/hitler.php
rense.com/general39/nazije.htm.

But I know…unless it comes from a Catholic Father, you won’t believe any of it.
Dear BibleTruth, and Greggy. Is it possible that two well-meaning people such as the both of you likely are, could just tell why you each one believe and do what you do, but without knocking the other by judging, almost name-calling?

I’m not saying I’m innocent about what I’m saying in paragraph one here. But I think that if you both say what you believe without knocking the other as representing a deceptive system, or following decepions, which both are a form of judgmentalism, that then people looking in from outside can make up their own minds about what and whom to believe.

You can say of me that I am deceived or deluded. Just don’t say I’m luny enough to believe there was any good in Adolph Hitler, or that I’m following Satan’ religious system.
I may be deluded, but though I personally doubt it, I can accept at least the possibility. That should be something we all give due consideration to.
 
Please present the evidence to support your claims. Please explain how the SDA church has re-written Christian history to suit our own purposes. What are our purposes if not to brings God’s truth to light? What do we have to gain from the world in proclaiming the truth that we have? Perhaps you haven’t realized it but being an SDA Christian is not a glamorous position to be in because we have to share harsh, cutting Bible truths that most people don’t want to hear or accept…
I and many others on this forum have presented the evidence time and time again, just to have your fellow SDA members ignore it and then fail to respond with their own. I’m not falling for that one again. Your truth, is just what you or your leaders want you to think it is. You have no authority to interpret the scriptures and it shoiws.
What’s interesting is that at no point do we lift up any man (or woman) in the place of God. That’s simply not the case in Catholicism where the pope is exalted as is Mary. It doesn’t take an SDA to realize these things or point them out. There are no false, unsubstantiated claims in making these statements - it’s historical fact. …
The Pope is our leader, just as Christ appointed Peter as the leader of HIs Church like the scriptures say. Mary is also honored as the scriptures say she is honored. You may not want to accept all of the scriputres but they are there and that is the historical fact.
Our only goal is to lift up Jesus Christ and to prepare the world for His return. Ironically, Lucifer is doing the same thing through his counterfeit religious system…
After reading much of your SDA material and discussing with other SDA’s I have come to the conclusion that your primary goal as an organization is to tear down God’s Church. You cannot stand on your own without spreading lies about other Christians. You are sowers of discord, and confusion.
The following statement is from a Jesuit priest:

“I believe that the Messiah whom we await, whom we all without any doubt await, is the universal Christ; that is to say, the Christ of evolution.” -Pierre Teilhard de Chardin, as quoted in “Teilhard de Chardin: Christianity and Evolution,” Spiritual Conspiracies Project Journal: 56. My Christ is the God of Creation!.
And this “Spiritual conspiracies project journal” of course comes from an objective source.:rolleyes:
Lest you forget, “And no marvel; for Satan himself is transformed into an angel of light” (2 Corinthians 11:14)…
Absolutely, and Amen to that.
I’m not sure what information you’re citing in reference to Sunday because the Catholic Church admits changing the day of Sabbath observance from the seventh to the first day. That’s documented fact that’s been quoted by the highest levels within Catholicism…
Yes Christians from the first century on have worshipped on Sunday. The Church had and has that authority…The Bible says so.
Reality: The system that has deceived you is the system that Lucifer has employed to deceive you. When he manifests himself as an angel of light, he will be welcomed as “the Cosmic Christ” and will set in motion the final events of our age. Those who will have decided to remain living in deception (although at this point, they’ll be willing participants) will receive the mark of Lucifer’s authority by accepting enforced Sunday worship and rejecting the authority of God by turning their backs on His Sabbath.
What a bunch of nonsense “Cosmic Christ”? Where is that written in the Bible? It isn’t. It’s some rubbish that some one has decieved you with. Stop being led around by the nose and do some independant research.
 
You can say of me that I am deceived or deluded. Just don’t say I’m luny enough to believe there was any good in Adolph Hitler, or that I’m following Satan’ religious system.
I may be deluded, but though I personally doubt it, I can accept at least the possibility. That should be something we all give due consideration to.
You are taking my post out of context. I never said you or anyone else believed there was any good in Adolph Hitler.
 
Because the “garbage” has proven to be true. Personally, I don’t hate anyone. I hate false, erroneous systems because they only seek to obscure the truth about Jesus Christ.

Of course, there are many sources who disagree:with you:

abelard.org/hitler/hitler.php
rense.com/general39/nazije.htm.

But I know…unless it comes from a Catholic Father, you won’t believe any of it.
I believe there are many that hate the Catholic Church, and the Church and Christ are one…the Bible says so.

I have questioned many in the Church including priests and Bishops. I have checked independant, secular sources when researching the history of the Church. And I found that the Catholic Church is the one and same Church both historically, and spiritually that was founded by Christ. Do some earnest study on your own. Use secular sources that don’t have an axe to grind. Don’t follow your leaders blindly, I don’t
 
Amen! Yet why do so many non Catholics feel the need to convince themselves to express oneself here? Is there some one else or thing behind it?
For me, it’s not an issue of convincing myself of anything. The basis for what I do is in the Bible.

“And Jesus came and spake unto them, saying, All power is given unto me in heaven and in earth. Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost: Teaching them to observe all things whatsoever I have commanded you: and, lo, I am with you always, even unto the end of the world. Amen.” Matthew 28:18-20.

"Take heed therefore unto yourselves, and to all the flock, over the which the Holy Ghost hath made you overseers, to feed the church of God, which he hath purchased with his own blood. For I know this, that after my departing shall grievous wolves enter in among you, not sparing the flock. Also of your own selves shall men arise, speaking perverse things, to draw away disciples after them. Therefore watch, and remember, that by the space of three years I ceased not to warn every one night and day with tears. Acts 20:28-31.

“This know also, that in the last days perilous times shall come. For men shall be lovers of their own selves, covetous, boasters, proud, blasphemers, disobedient to parents, unthankful, unholy, Without natural affection, trucebreakers, false accusers, incontinent, fierce, despisers of those that are good, Traitors, heady, highminded, lovers of pleasures more than lovers of God; Having a form of godliness, but denying the power thereof: from such turn away. For of this sort are they which creep into houses, and lead captive silly women laden with sins, led away with divers lusts, Ever learning, and never able to come to the knowledge of the truth.” 2 Timothy 3:1-7. (only a church would have “a form of godliness”…)

“And I heard another voice from heaven, saying, Come out of her, my people, that ye be not partakers of her sins, and that ye receive not of her plagues.” Revelation 18:4.

“Here is the patience of the saints: here are they that keep the commandments of God, and the faith of Jesus.” Revelation 14:12.

The entire “Christian” church has become corrupted in the last days. God raised up a movement in the end times to prepare His people for the coming of Jesus Christ. People in this movement come out of many different churches and religions. I’m a willing part of that movement because it is grounded on faith in Jesus Christ and the foundation of His word.
 
Amen! Yet why do so many non Catholics feel the need to convince themselves to express oneself here? Is there some one else or thing behind it?
Well, first, people of all faiths go to sites like this one, many times out of pure intellectual curiosity, just to see what others beside themselves are saying about anything, incuding other (in the case of CAF, the Catholic Church) are saying about non-Catholic religions and denominations. In my case as a Messianic Jew, and with what we and most other Protestant churches recall about Pope Benedict’s not very friendly statements about Protestant churches not being real, full "Chistian churches, because of not being connected with the papacy and the Apostle, Peter, etc.

This seemed to bring back recollections of church history and what happened in the middle ages in Europe. Benedict put Protestants on the defensive. HIs remarks were frankly un-called for. I recall remarks made by Baptist ministers, and some Lutherans on their radtio shows, etc. Adventists are not the only ones.

When people, after they become registered with CAF, get the emails about “Hot Topics.”
One that has been sent to me several times is listed as “Info. On SDA’s.”
There have been ones on Jehovah’s Witnesses, Mormons, Anglicans, etc.

Why does the Roman Catholic Church feel such a need to try putting down Protestant churches, while simultaneously resenting being treated in the same way by Protestants who have responded in the same way? Recently, I have at least tried to approach these discussions by simply stating what I feel I know to be truth, without specifically pointing the finger of angry retort to the RCC, Adventists, Baptists, or others.

Peace
 
I believe there are many that hate the Catholic Church, and the Church and Christ are one…the Bible says so.

I have questioned many in the Church including priests and Bishops. I have checked independant, secular sources when researching the history of the Church. And I found that the Catholic Church is the one and same Church both historically, and spiritually that was founded by Christ. Do some earnest study on your own. Use secular sources that don’t have an axe to grind. Don’t follow your leaders blindly, I don’t
What leaders? I do my own study and I’m often at odds with members of my church who are still seeing things through the eyes of the world and not God’s kingdom. I certainly don’t swallow everything I hear from others. The point is that our understanding has to have a foundation and a standard. That foundation and standard is God’s word; it is absolute and completely reliable.

On the other hand, tradition is completely subjective and relative to the men who establish it. Why would you want to put your trust in fallible men? Who gave them the authority to determine what is holy and what isn’t when the Bible already establishes it?

The RCC system is man-focused and not Jesus-focused. It puts its trust in the kingdom of this world and not in the kingdom of heaven. It’s a system that has many beautiful, Christ-loving, caring people in it. There’s no question about that. But the system is at fault and is operating under the assumed authority of Lucifer (Rev. 13:1-4).

The “Church” won’t save you, friends. “Neither is there salvation in any other: for there is none other name under heaven given among men, whereby we must be saved.” Acts 4:12.
 
What a bunch of nonsense “Cosmic Christ”? Where is that written in the Bible? It isn’t. It’s some rubbish that some one has decieved you with. Stop being led around by the nose and do some independant research.
You might want to consider following this advice yourself. As you said “Amen” to, Lucifer will manifest himself as an impersonation of the Messiah before the second coming of the true Savior, Jesus Christ. Do a little study on the New Age movement and the occult agenda within the United Nations and you’ll see these things clearly. There’s a systematic method to this madness.

This “Cosmic Christ” is referred to by different names within varying factions of the New Age movement. Freemasons call him the “Grand Architect”. Do a little research on the writings of Alice A. Bailey, Helena Blavatsky and Albert Pike and they all speak of this coming supposed deity. These were high-occult channels for Lucifer and they’re doing the counterfeit work to God’s end-time people who are heeding His call to draw nearer to Jesus Christ and to share His truth with others.

Wake up, my friend. The time for playing church is over.

“Because thou sayest, I am rich, and increased with goods, and have need of nothing; and knowest not that thou art wretched, and miserable, and poor, and blind, and naked.” Revelation 3:17.
 
Dear BibleTruth, and Greggy. Is it possible that two well-meaning people such as the both of you likely are, could just tell why you each one believe and do what you do, but without knocking the other by judging, almost name-calling?

I’m not saying I’m innocent about what I’m saying in paragraph one here. But I think that if you both say what you believe without knocking the other as representing a deceptive system, or following decepions, which both are a form of judgmentalism, that then people looking in from outside can make up their own minds about what and whom to believe.

You can say of me that I am deceived or deluded. Just don’t say I’m luny enough to believe there was any good in Adolph Hitler, or that I’m following Satan’ religious system.
I may be deluded, but though I personally doubt it, I can accept at least the possibility. That should be something we all give due consideration to.
Thanks for the the note, Ron.

The last thing I am towards any individual is judgmental. I’m just as guilty of sin as is any sinner.

The Bible speaks of a false religious system. The foundation for this understanding (as I’ve eluded on in a lengthy post just yesterday) is in the book of Daniel. We’re given a timeline of events that would take place from the time of the kingdom of Babylon through the times in which we’re living now up to the return of Jesus Christ. The entire book of Daniel lays the groundwork for setting up the book of Revelation.

Revelation, after taking us through timelines of events from the dawn of Christianity through the return of Jesus Christ, reveals to us that the beast that was wounded would have its wound healed. It would be aided by another false religious system in restoring its power and authority. The purpose for this will be to rule the world with one religio-political church/state government and destroy God’s people in the last days.

Again, without going into all the details, history has fulfilled this prophecy to the letter and is still in the process of doing so. Daniel revealed in succession the kingdoms of Babylon, Medo-Persia and Greece. The fourth kingdom has to be Rome (history ensures this) and the only spiritual kingdom that came out of Rome was the RCC. It’s impossible to just make this up if we believe in the same Bible. This system received a deadly wound in 1798 when pope Pius VI was taken captive by general Berthier under the command of Napoleon.

Revelation 13 reveals that this power will have this wound healed with the aid of what Revelation 16 refers to as the “false prophet”. The “fire” that it makes come down from heaven (Rev. 13:13) is “strange fire”, meaning it’s a counterfeit to the true fire that is the Holy Spirit. This is where spiritualism, witchcraft, occultism and sorcery will come into play. Almost everything in the media entertainment industry is preparing the world for this. It’s why so many movies and TV shows have spiritualist themes…including (and specifically) children’s programs.

This false prophet comes from within the second beast of Revelation 13…the one that comes out of the earth. Space doesn’t allow for all of the biblical support for this understanding, but this second beast is the United States of America. The false prophet is apostate Protestantism that falls back into union with the papacy. This is happening all over Christianity right now. It was the goal of Vatican II.

This union will bring about the enforcement of the mark of the beast. This is when people will be forced to choose God or Lucifer. Once this decision is made, humanity’s probation closes and Jesus leaves the heavenly sanctuary to prepare to come harvest the earth. Those who choose God will be the “144,000” and they will witness the return of Jesus Christ while still alive.

All of this is prophesied to happen. I love everyone too much to not want to share this truth. I’m not attacking or judging individuals. I’m not worthy of that responsibility. All I want is to be saved in God’s kingdom and to share the knowledge that’s available to us all in His word so others can be saved too. We ALL have to come out of Babylon!
 
The following statement is from a Jesuit priest:

“I believe that the Messiah whom we await, whom we all without any doubt await, is the universal Christ; that is to say, the Christ of evolution.” -Pierre Teilhard de Chardin, as quoted in “Teilhard de Chardin: Christianity and Evolution,” Spiritual Conspiracies Project Journal: 56.
greggy53;6801960:
And this “Spiritual conspiracies project journal” of course comes from an objective source.:rolleyes:
BibleTruth, you obviously did not read that quote from a journal, but you simply cut-and-pasted it from a website. Isn’t that right? It’s obviously going to be from a biased anti-Catholic website. :rolleyes:

Is it possible that you cut-and-pasted it from the following anti-Catholic, biased, Adventist-based website**:**

amazingdiscoveries.org/AD-New-Age-Teilhard_de_Chardin-Sprituality.html ?

Pray tell? :knight2:

What an amazing discovery*!!!* :coffeeread:
 
This union will bring about the enforcement of the mark of the beast. This is when people will be forced to choose God or Lucifer. Once this decision is made, humanity’s probation closes and Jesus leaves the heavenly sanctuary to prepare to come harvest the earth. Those who choose God will be the “144,000” and they will witness the return of Jesus Christ while still alive.

All of this is prophesied to happen. I love everyone too much to not want to share this truth. I’m not attacking or judging individuals. I’m not worthy of that responsibility. All I want is to be saved in God’s kingdom and to share the knowledge that’s available to us all in His word so others can be saved too. We ALL have to come out of Babylon!
I like the come backs!

2 Peter 20-21. Know first of all that there is no prophecy of scripture that is a matter of personal interpretation, for no prophecy ever came through human will; but rather human beings being moved by the holy Spirit spoke under the influence of God.
 
so those that worship on saturday are saturn worshippers? sorry, i couldnt resist. ;)welcome to the debate. very glad to have you my friend. oh, and incidentally, the last days were ushered in at pentacost if im not mistaken. they are not so much a future occurence, as a present day reality. also how long will Adventist hold on to the prophecy of the sunday laws? if this does not come to pass in say another 400 years, will the Adventist still believe it? according to what ive listened to among Adventis preachers and the like. they state its right around the corner. look forward to your answer. peace 🙂
lol, Yes, I am a “Saturn Worshipper.” Just remember; a day is like a thousand years to God.
 
The Jews were the writers of the Bible. Not the Catholic Church. The simple word, “caholic” began to be used to describe the extent to which Torah-observant Judeo-Christianity was being spread to the then known world, which was tiny by comparison to what is known about today’s world. In today’ world, the Lutherans, Baptists, Methodists, Presbyterians, and certainly the Seventh-day Adventists, Mormons and Catholics are all “catholic” in the sense that they are evangelizing the whole world.

The word, “catholic,” in reference to an organized religious entity, only began to be used in approximately the time-period from around 600 AD. Before AD 400, there were three Christian “patriarchates.” They were centered in what is today, Consantinople, another in Alexandria, Egypt, and Rome. As could be expected because they were mere human beings, politics and money got in the way of peaceful relationships between the three: competition!

The Roman Church had faced massive persecution during the first couple of hundred years after Jesus’ ascension because the non-Christian Jews were in rebellion against the Roman Empire. The non-monotheistic Romans persecuted the Jews because of the rebellion. Judeo-Christians attended synagogue services while simultaneously worshipping Jesus. They did this on the Sabbath, and during the annual holy days and festivals of the Lord according to the lunar calendar set up by God. The Romans could not tell the two apart. It was then when the non-Christian Jews demanded that those Jews who followed Jesus’ example of non-violence fight the Roman pagans, side-by-side, that Christian Jews and some Gentile converts to Judeo-Christianity began pulling away from the religion as Christ set it up while yet here on earth at Capernaum, some distance from Jerusalem.

The big argument became one of whether believers should continue to keep the Passover, or start observing “Easter Sunday.” At first, the Roman patriarchate continued observing what they today call “the Jewish Sabbath.” It was not “Jewish.” It, along with the rest of the Ten Commandments, came from God and was given to Moses as God had written it on the Tables of Stone. The specific behaviors required to keep the Ten Commandments are fully described in the rest of the Torah. Each specific law, local civil ordinanc, statute or judgment is traceable to one or more of the Ten Commandments. That includes the Fourth Commandment to remember to keep holy the seventh day (of the week) as the Sabbath. All of God’s annual sabbaths and the pilgrim holy convocations (now away from Jerusalem because of Jesus’ example at Capernaum), come together under the Fourth Commandment.

Shalom

PS. Where did this idea of the Sabbath Command being the “third” Commandment come from?
Ron: as a Jew you should know that Judaism ( Jews ) DOES NOT have a bible. Judaism has the Torah and The Tanakh. The Bible is strictly Christian and consists of the Hebrew Scriptures ( Old Testament ) and the writings ( scriptures ) that concern Jesus Christ and His Teachings ( New Testament ). The Bible was assembled and given to Christianity by the Catholic Church at the Council of Rome in 385 AD. ( read: thecatholictreasurechest.com/canon.htm ). And, only the Catholic Church is “catholic”, which means universal, since it is found in every country on this planet. The term “Catholic” was first used by St. Ireneus in his letter to the Smyrneans in 110 AD.

The first Christians, both Jewish and Gentile, did use the synagogue for Sabbath worship, but the dispute between the Jews and Christians escalated to a point where the Christians were expelled from the synagogue. In turn the Christians started meeting in private homes for worship and the Agape. These homes later became Chritians Churches. Sunday became the Christian Sabbath as early a 225 AD.

I would recommend, in all Christian Charity, that you study the history of the early Church and learn about the early Church Fathers, such as Ireneus, Ignatius, Eusebius, etc. before you make anymore erroneous statements and embarrass yourself. You have much to learn.

PAX DOMINI :signofcross:

Shalom haMeshiac
 
On the other hand, tradition is completely subjective and relative to the men who establish it. Why would you want to put your trust in fallible men? Who gave them the authority to determine what is holy and what isn’t when the Bible already establishes it?

The RCC system is man-focused and not Jesus-focused. It puts its trust in the kingdom of this world and not in the kingdom of heaven. It’s a system that has many beautiful, Christ-loving, caring people in it. There’s no question about that. But the system is at fault and is operating under the assumed authority of Lucifer (Rev. 13:1-4).

The “Church” won’t save you, friends. “Neither is there salvation in any other: for there is none other name under heaven given among men, whereby we must be saved.” Acts 4:12.
On the other hand interpretaion of scripture can be just as subjective. Who gave you the authority to interpret scripture for yourself?..Jesus Christ gave the Church the authority in the Book of Matthew. Who told you the Church is man-focused? Have you ever been to a Mass? it sounds like you have been spoon fed some propaganda. Go to a Mass, and then think about what youv’e been saying. Before Jesus left us he established his Church. that Church is the Catholic Church. and he compared his relationship to his Church as a bride and bridegroom. The Church and Christ are one.
 
RonTheNewJew, you pointed out that Paul commanded the converted Pagans to not let anyone judge them about the Saturday sabbath issue. Should anyone else (besides the converted pagans) be judged for worshiping on Sunday?

Catholicism interprets to be the Lord’s Day to be Sunday, due to Jesus’ resurrection? Do you believe this?
You are correct in saying “CATHOLICISM” interprets Sunday as “the Lord’s Day,” but the Bible does not follow suit in this matter.
 
What do you mean by that?..when Jesus lay in the tomb for 3 days it was really 3 thousand years to God?
Sorry. I was just having a little fun - was not intending to be theologically accurate:

2Pe 3:8 But, beloved, be not ignorant of this one thing, that one day is with the Lord as a thousand years, and a thousand years as one day.
 
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