Info on SDA

[SteveVH]

Steve; relax. You are always going to attract this kind of person/s on a forum like this. They usually respond according to the kind of responses the Catholic members here give them. It is my understanding and experience that the Moderators keep a close eye on this forum, Non-Catholic Religions. If you look at some of the posts directed at me here; you will see people accusing me of believing “satanic doctrines” and of being a “cult” etc. I think it’s important to keep trying, and to not respond in kind. (although it is tempting!). What do you think?

I think exactly as I said, whether it is directed at you or the Catholic Church. If one wants to defend and explain their beliefs, more power to them. Give us your best arguments. When the language consists of nothing but hateful rhetoric then it is inapropriate and should not be tolerated. I am also guilty of being less than charitable at times and can put up with a lot from others in the heat of battle, but there was absolutely no reason for this other than being just plain nasty.

 

[me_again]

You can read Pierre Teilhard de Chardin’s words for yourself: books.google.com/books?id=ghxWLZ3aD-IC&printsec=frontcover&dq=teilhard+de+chardin&source=bll&ots=bhTXUK63TL&sig=SQrTFwVJQTS0Hya8-WOcIQ-c0I4&hl=en&ei=M5cuTOf0H4H88Aac9PiZAw&sa=X&oi=book_result&ct=result&resnum=13&ved=0CGQQ6AEwDA#v=onepage&q&f=false.

He was an influential Jesuit priest who taught evolution.

Not everyone who claims to be a Catholic will enter the kingdom of heaven. God knows who his people are. If a Jesuit priest is teaching evolution (where God isn’t the Creator of the universe and the earth), then he will have to answer to God. And if a Jesuit priest is wrong – or if a Catholic layman is wrong – it does not give you proof that the teachings of the Catholic Church are wrong. It only gives you proof that that particular individual is wrong. A priest who is in error is not representative of the teachings of the Catholic Church, which begs the question**:** Exactly what are the teachings of the Catholic Church?

BibleTruth, you present cut-and-pastes from kooky anti-Catholic websites as if they are the teachings of the Catholic Church**;** but they aren’t. You are in error. You haven’t read the Catholic Catechism**;** and you haven’t read the teachings of the proteges who heard first-hand what the apostles taught them, so how can you refute the teachings of the Catholic Church when you don’t even know what they are or the context of their formulation?

Read the Catholic Catechism. Read the writings of the proteges who were the direct disciples of the apostles. Then you will be better equipped to know the original context of Catholic teachings. Until you do that, you are ill equipped to refute the teachings of the Catholic Church and you are are relegated to quoting from kooky anti-Catholic websites, which you’ve done profusely e.g. you still haven’t provided a reputable source for your claim that infant baptism comes from worshiping the sun.

 

[me_again]

I’m sure you can provide a reference, book and page number for this claim [where Ellen White claimed to see Enoch on planet Venus]?

At this very second, no. However, I’ve read most of the SDA literature and if you’ve never read this, then it’s shocking. If the exact source is provided to you, then will it make you realize that Ellen White was a liar who mixed truth with lies to gain credibility? Pray tell? If it will do that, then the exact source will be researched and provided for your spiritual edification.

Note to self**:** Ellen White claimed to see Enoch on planet Venus during one of her demonic visions.

 

[BibleTruth]

Do you remember when Ellen White claimed to see Enoch on planet Venus in one of her visions? It’s convenient that no one could refute her vision because humankind didn’t have the technology to closely examine Venus.

Then when the Second Coming of Jesus didn’t happen (as promised) in 1844, Ellen White claimed that William Miller’s biblical calculations were correct, EXCEPT that instead of the Second Coming occurring in 1844, Jesus entered the holy of holies in 1844. It’s convenient that no one could refute her claim because humankind didn’t have the technology to closely examine heaven.

Ellen White entraps the gullible by mixing truth with lies. That’s how all false prophets work, to include Mary Baker Eddy (Scientology), Charles Taze Russell, Joseph Smith and all the others. Why would the Lord allow people to believe a lie? Because there comes a certain point where He gives them up to their own delusions.

I’m actually familiar with the quote you’re referring to and I’m also aware of the proper context, which you haven’t cited. It would take me a little time to gather what I would need to share and condense it down to present here. One thing for sure is that there is a very reasonable explanation if you’re really interested.

It wasn’t Ellen White that realized that the events of 1844 had the wrong event for the prophecy, it was Hiram Edson.

The foundation for understanding the sanctuary can be found all throughout the Old Testament. Jesus is the fulfillment of the entire service. Just as the blood of the lamb had to be taken into the tabernacle (the holy and the most holy place), Jesus took His own blood into the heavenly sanctuary in a spiritual sense (see Hebrews 8 through 10). The rise in demonic activity SINCE 1844 should give you some idea that Lucifer was countering the work of God in cleansing the hearts and minds of His people in preparation for His return.

I don’t mean to be judgmental, but I’m finding that you’re doing exactly what you say SDAs do in making claims without proof.

You can read for yourself how a Catholic lawyer confirmed that E.G. White was NOT a plagiarist: biblicalresearch.gc.adventist.org/documents/plagiarist.pdf.

 

[me_again]

I’m actually familiar with the quote you’re referring to and I’m also aware of the proper context, which you haven’t cited. It would take me a little time to gather what I would need to share and condense it down to present here. One thing for sure is that there is a very reasonable explanation if you’re really interested…

BibleTruth, since you’re familiar with where Ellen White wrote that she saw Enoch on planet Venus, then please feel free to provide the source – with a link to it. The Ellen White estate has much of this stuff online. And please feel free to provide any contextual analysis you wish, as long as the readers can also read Ellen White’s original writing for themselves.

The more that Ellen White’s lies are exposed, the more that people will be disgusted. Please feel free to try and justify “good old Enoch” on planet Venus in Ellen’s vision.

 

[BibleTruth]

At this very second, no. However, I’ve read most of the SDA literature and if you’ve never read this, then it’s shocking. If the exact source is provided to you, then will it make you realize that Ellen White was a liar who mixed truth with lies to gain credibility? Pray tell? If it will do that, then the exact source will be researched and provided for your spiritual edification.

Note to self**:** Ellen White claimed to see Enoch on planet Venus during one of her demonic visions.

You won’t read in Ellen White’s writings that she saw Enoch on Venus. She saw a planet with four moons. Someone with a telescope (Joseph Bates) thought she was referring to Jupiter. She later said that she saw Enoch visiting a planet with four moons. Someone then made the connection that she must have been talking about Jupiter because it has four moons. And now…someone else seems to have changed the planet…to Venus!

If you listen to this recording starting at around 17:00, you can get a brief, clear understanding of this gross misunderstanding: audioverse.org/sermons/recordings/303/the-last-adventist-deception.html.

 

[BibleTruth]

BibleTruth, since you’re familiar with where Ellen White wrote that she saw Enoch on planet Venus, then please feel free to provide the source – with a link to it. The Ellen White estate has much of this stuff online. And please feel free to provide any contextual analysis you wish, as long as the readers can also read Ellen White’s original writing for themselves.

The more that Ellen White’s lies are exposed, the more that people will be disgusted. Please feel free to try and justify “good old Enoch” on planet Venus in Ellen’s vision.

I said I was familiar with the quote…not that I’m familiar with the claim that “she saw Enoch on planet Venus”. If you do the research yourself in the link to her work that I’ve provided, you’ll see that your claims are not grounded in fact. Actually, if you continue reading, you may find yourself being pointed directly to the Word of God by her writings.

ALSO…why didn’t you respond to the other items in the same post?

 

[BibleTruth]

At this very second, no. However, I’ve read most of the SDA literature and if you’ve never read this, then it’s shocking. If the exact source is provided to you, then will it make you realize that Ellen White was a liar who mixed truth with lies to gain credibility? Pray tell? If it will do that, then the exact source will be researched and provided for your spiritual edification.

Note to self**:** Ellen White claimed to see Enoch on planet Venus during one of her demonic visions.

Based on the fact that you’re wrong in all of your claims…who is really the liar in this discussion?

 

[BibleTruth]

Not everyone who claims to be a Catholic will enter the kingdom of heaven. God knows who his people are. If a Jesuit priest is teaching evolution (where God isn’t the Creator of the universe and the earth), then he will have to answer to God. And if a Jesuit priest is wrong – or if a Catholic layman is wrong – it does not give you proof that the teachings of the Catholic Church are wrong. It only gives you proof that that particular individual is wrong. A priest who is in error is not representative of the teachings of the Catholic Church, which begs the question**:** Exactly what are the teachings of the Catholic Church?

BibleTruth, you present cut-and-pastes from kooky anti-Catholic websites as if they are the teachings of the Catholic Church**;** but they aren’t. You are in error. You haven’t read the Catholic Catechism**;** and you haven’t read the teachings of the proteges who heard first-hand what the apostles taught them, so how can you refute the teachings of the Catholic Church when you don’t even know what they are or the context of their formulation?

Read the Catholic Catechism. Read the writings of the proteges who were the direct disciples of the apostles. Then you will be better equipped to know the original context of Catholic teachings. Until you do that, you are ill equipped to refute the teachings of the Catholic Church and you are are relegated to quoting from kooky anti-Catholic websites, which you’ve done profusely e.g. you still haven’t provided a reputable source for your claim that infant baptism comes from worshiping the sun.

I’ve read your Catechism and some of your literature. The Ten Commandments of your Catechism are NOT the Ten Commandments of the Bible. It’s false doctrine based on the traditions of fallible men.

Teilhard de Chardin was quite influential INSIDE the Catholic Church. This is perhaps one of the reasons that the papacy accepts the demonic teaching of theistic evolution: catholic.com/library/Adam_Eve_and_Evolution.asp.

 

[BibleTruth]

I won’t even address the rest of your rantings, but you are getting really close to being over-the-top offensive here. First of all please stop referring to the Catholic Church as a system. It isn’t a system it is a Church, the one true Church. You have stated that the Catholic Church is under the authority of Satan and that in her there is no salvation. When you bash the Church, you bash Christ himself who is its Head. I’ll report you to the moderators in a second if you keep it up. npatrol:

Please feel free to do as you wish, Steve. Or…you can do a little research to see if any of the things I’m presenting here have any basis.

Take care.

 

[greggy53]

Just to help everyone out a litte bit, when the Bible, since it was written by Jews after Christ’s ascension, mentions about what the believers did “early on the first day of the week, very early in the morning,” it is talking about the first day of the week which still should, in Judeo-Christian understanding, be understood as beginning at sundown Sabbath evening (Saturday according to the Gregorian calendar), was sometimes because of 'fear of the Jews." In the instance of laying up their offerings, this was to be done after the Sabbath had ended, “early on the first day of the week.” This was because, in some cases, their offerings were made up of produce or other things they would have to gather in before putting the offering together before giving to the apostle the next day if he intended to leave early on the first day of the week.

Thanks for your help, but it’s really just double talk. They were gathered to worship and share the Eucharist (break bread) on the 1st day, Sunday. But even if it was Saturday night after sundown Sabbath was over. Just another SDA smoke screen, a way around the truths of the Bible.

In the case of when the women brought the spices to the Sepulchre where Jesus had been laid after His death, the women brought the spices “early on the first day of the week” because they would not have done such a thing during the hours of the Sabbath.
Again, this could have been done at anytime after sundown which ended the Sabbath day.

And when did Christ rise from the dead?..On the first day Sunday.

“And I was in the Spirit on the Lord’s Day,” refers back to Jesus saying that He was/“is Lord also of the Sabbath.” He never had declared any other 24 hour period of time as the Bible Sabbath.

If St John had meant the Sabbath when he said “The Lords Day” being a jew he would have said “I was in the spirit on the Sabbath”, but he didn’t. Therefore one can only conclude that he did not mean the Sabbath. And Jesus being Lord even of the Sabbath rose from the dead on Sunday the first day of the week.

PS. The New Testament is only the expanding of the New Covenant, Exodus 34, starting at verse 10." Jesus was de-exclusivizing it from where the ethnic Jews had put it: strictly in their own domain. God had told them to give it to the rest of the world, LONG before Jesus was born. They didn’t do it. They wanted God’s blessing for keeping it just to themselves. But that was NOT God’s plan. Jesus died to give His New Covenant, which His blood ratified (the one given at Mt. Sinai the second time) Shabbat ShalomRon

What does this have to do with Sunday worship? Nothing, just more SDA double speak to muddy the waters, and sow confusion.

 

[CatholicLover]

Hi all, I hope you don’t mind if I jump into this discussion. This is my first post on these forums so let me first explain my username ‘CatholicLover’. I am Seventh Day Adventist but my wife is Catholic and (believe it or not) we’ve been happily married for 10 years, hence the name ‘CatholicLover’.
I’ve been following this thread with interest for what are probably obvious reasons and I’d like to think I have a fairly unique perspective on the topics in this thread. For the most part it’s been a fairly civil discussion between people who clearly love God and I find that quite exciting. There are post in this thread though that (although based in the belief of one party or the other) are quite insulting. I think it’s possible to have this dicussion minus the insulting retoric, so as I enter this discussion I’ll endeavor to have a kind heart and open mind.

 

[me_again]

You won’t read in Ellen White’s writings that she saw Enoch on Venus. She saw a planet with four moons. Someone with a telescope (Joseph Bates) thought she was referring to Jupiter. Ellen White later said that she saw Enoch visiting a planet with four moons. Someone then made the connection that she must have been talking about Jupiter because it has four moons. And now…someone else seems to have changed the planet…to Venus!

If you listen to this recording starting at around 17:00, you can get a brief, clear understanding of this gross misunderstanding: audioverse.org/sermons/recordings/303/the-last-adventist-deception.html.

BibleTruth, at the following link between 19:24 and 19:43, an SDA apologist admits that Ellen White claimed to see Enoch on a planet with four moons: audioverse.org/sermons/recordings/303/the-last-adventist-deception.html. However, where is it written in SDA literature?

Ellen White also said that there are some cases where Black slaves died – and immediately went into soul sleep (with no consciousness); and Ellen White further said that they will never experience a resurrection. This is contrary to the Word of God, which says that all men will experience a judgment, either at the Judgment Seat of Christ or at the Great White Throne Judgment for the damned. BibleTruth, can you find where in Ellen White’s writings this may be found?

Knowledge is power.

 

[BibleTruth]

I think exactly as I said, whether it is directed at you or the Catholic Church. If one wants to defend and explain their beliefs, more power to them. Give us your best arguments. When the language consists of nothing but hateful rhetoric then it is inapropriate and should not be tolerated. I am also guilty of being less than charitable at times and can put up with a lot from others in the heat of battle, but there was absolutely no reason for this other than being just plain nasty.

Steve, there’s a very good reason to proclaim the messages of the three angels of Revelation 14…because those who accept the assumed authority of Lucifer will be destroyed and God wants HIS people (including you!) OUT of this system. I will certainly admit that my tone isn’t always as humble as Jesus Christ’s, but the BIBLE reveals the truth of everything I’ve presented. All I ask is that you use the Bible to refute anything that I’ve presented.

The truth isn’t always comfortable and pleasing to hear. That’s why Paul writes that some in the last days will heap unto themselves teachers, having itching ears; and shall turn away their ears from the truth (2 Timothy 4:3-4).

 

[BibleTruth]

BibleTruth, at the following link between 19:24 and 19:43, an SDA apologist admits that Ellen White claimed to see Enoch on a planet with four moons: audioverse.org/sermons/recordings/303/the-last-adventist-deception.html. However, where is it written in SDA literature?

Ellen White also said that there are some cases where Black slaves died – and immediately went into soul sleep (with no consciousness); and Ellen White further said that they will never experience a resurrection. This is contrary to the Word of God, which says that all men will experience a judgment, either at the Judgment Seat of Christ or at the Great White Throne Judgment for the damned. BibleTruth, can you find where in Ellen White’s writings this may be found?

Knowledge is power.

You’re the one making the claim. The burden of proof is on you to support your assertions. Please do so…thanks.

 

[greggy53]

I’ve read your Catechism and some of your literature. The Ten Commandments of your Catechism are NOT the Ten Commandments of the Bible. It’s false doctrine based on the traditions of fallible men.].

That is very odd because you got your Bible from the Catholic Church.

Teilhard de Chardin was quite influential INSIDE the Catholic Church. This is perhaps one of the reasons that the papacy accepts the demonic teaching of theistic evolution: catholic.com/library/Adam_Eve_and_Evolution.asp.

And there are hundreds of saints over a 2000 year history that are quite influential in the Church as well, and they all disagree with you.

 

[BibleTruth]

Hi all, I hope you don’t mind if I jump into this discussion. This is my first post on these forums so let me first explain my username ‘CatholicLover’. I am Seventh Day Adventist but my wife is Catholic and (believe it or not) we’ve been happily married for 10 years, hence the name ‘CatholicLover’.
I’ve been following this thread with interest for what are probably obvious reasons and I’d like to think I have a fairly unique perspective on the topics in this thread. For the most part it’s been a fairly civil discussion between people who clearly love God and I find that quite exciting. There are post in this thread though that (although based in the belief of one party or the other) are quite insulting. I think it’s possible to have this dicussion minus the insulting retoric, so as I enter this discussion I’ll endeavor to have a kind heart and open mind.

Hello. Welcome to the discussion.

 

[me_again]

Based on the fact that you’re wrong in all of your claims…who is really the liar in this discussion?

Ellen White, the founder and leader of Adventism?

 

[BibleTruth]

That is very odd because you got your Bible from the Catholic Church.

And there are hundreds of saints over a 2000 year history that are quite influential in the Church as well, and they all disagree with you.

Do they disagree with the papacy? I cited information from a Catholic website that leaves the door open to theistic evolution. I’d like to hear your thoughts on that.

Greg, the Old Testament was written by Jews as inspired by God’s Holy Spirit and it was maintained by them; there has never been any misunderstanding to this fact. The New Testament was written by men, except in the case of Luke, who had direct contact with Jesus Christ. The only way their writings could have even been considered worthy of being in the Canon is if they all agreed with each other and collectively, all agreed with the foundation of the Old Testament.

The Catholic Church didn’t give anyone the Bible; it was the providential work of God so that His word would be preserved throughout our history for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness. (2 Timothy 3:16). This is partially what I mean by saying that your belief is man-based. Saying that the RCC gave us the Bible is blasphemy.

But…that shouldn’t come as a surprise:

“We [the popes] hold upon this earth the place of God Almighty.” Pope Leo XIII, in an encyclical letter dated June 20, 1894, translated in The Great Encyclical Letters of Pope Leo XIII (New York: Benziger, 1903), p. 304

 

[me_again]

Steve, there’s a very good reason to proclaim the messages of the three angels of Revelation 14…because those who accept the assumed authority of Lucifer will be destroyed and God wants HIS people (including you!) OUT of this system. I will certainly admit that my tone isn’t always as humble as Jesus Christ’s, but the BIBLE reveals the truth of everything I’ve presented. All I ask is that you use the Bible to refute anything that I’ve presented.

The truth isn’t always comfortable and pleasing to hear.

Ahhhhhhh more SDA theological rubbish!!! :banghead:

In SDA theology, Saturday sabbath worship is MANDATORY. Those who reject the SDA Saturday sabbath accept the SDA mark of the beast and are hell-bound (in the SDA belief system). It’s just more SDA theological rubbish.