Info on SDA

[me_again]

In 1 Corinthians 16:2, Paul was instructing the Christians to lay up things for the believers in Jerusalem in store (at home) so that when he came to town, they wouldn’t have to scramble around for their collections. Even in the Catholic Bible it’s written like that.

When Paul met with them for their Sunday mass, he wanted them to be ready (orderly).

In John 20:19, the disciples weren’t gathered for a worship service…they were gathered “for fear of the Jews” the day that Jesus ascended to heaven.

That helped to set a precedent that was used by the apostles to celebrate the resurrection on Sunday.

In Acts 20:7, Paul started preaching on a Saturday night and continued overnight (until Eutychus fell asleep on him…). Remember, in the Bible, the next day starts at sunset. In the full part of the first day, he walked 20 miles.

Either way, this Sunday preaching was a precedent that was established by the apostles.

This verse speaks more about God’s power to raise someone from the dead than it does anything about changing the day of worship. The breaking of bread was simply eating a meal as they did daily: “And they, continuing daily with one accord in the temple, and breaking bread from house to house, did eat their meat with gladness and singleness of heart.” Acts 2:46.

The celebrations of Jesus’ resurrection on Sundays was oftentimes done from house-to-house – unlike the mega-churches of the 21st Century.

In Luke 24:1, the women came to the tomb Sunday morning because of what the previous verses to this one say: "This man went unto Pilate, and begged the body of Jesus. And he took it down, and wrapped it in linen, and laid it in a sepulchre that was hewn in stone, wherein never man before was laid. And that day was the preparation [Friday], and the sabbath [Saturday] drew on. And the women also, which came with him from Galilee, followed after, and beheld the sepulchre, and how his body was laid. And they returned, and prepared spices and ointments; and rested the sabbath day according to the commandment. Luke 23:52-56.

This helped to establish the Sunday precedent to celebrate Jesus’ resurrection!

It’s funny but when a friend of mine actually studied this verse objectively and with an open heart, she saw that the seventh-day Sabbath was still God’s holy day.

The apostles also had open hearts and they were open to the leading of the Holy Spirit when they began celebrating Jesus’ resurrection on Sunday aka the Lord’s day.

One thing to bear in mind is that Luke was a “Gentile” doctor, not a Jew. If the Sabbath had been changed in the minds and teachings of Paul and the other apostles, Luke would not have referenced the Sabbath as many times as he does and not have indicated some sort of change. If I can recall, there are at least eight references in the book of Acts (also written by Luke) where the apostles, Jews and non-Jews are keeping the seventh-day Sabbath.

In the Jewish vernacular, the Sabbath was still Saturday, but the Lord’s day was celebrated on Sunday. During their writings and speakings, they used the current vernacular. Thus, the apostles appropriately referred to Saturday as the sabbath. It is appropriate vernacular. But the Christians still separated themselves from the unbelieving Jews in the Saturday sabbath synagogues by celebrating the resurrection of Jesus Christ on Sundays.

In Revelation 1:10, the vision is given to John on the Sabbath to reveal to him that it was still God’s holy day and it would be the deciding issue in the last days between those who accept the authority of God and those who accept the assumed authority of Satan when faced with a choice.

You are in error, reference Rev. 1:10. The vision given to John was on the Lord’s day (Sunday) and not on Saturday.

Please provide a reference from the Bible that PROVES the Sabbath has been changed. I’ll help you with this one:

It is done by apostolic tradition. The apostles initiated Sunday gatherings and we’ve continued this tradition for 2000 years. However, Ellen White started to have strange “visions” in 1844, such as seeing Enoch visiting a planet with four moons**;** and Ellen White made the claim that Christians must worship on the Jewish Saturday sabbath → or else they would receive the SDA mark of the beast and go to hell.

The apostles also told their disciples that Jesus didn’t have wives or children. That’s called apostolic tradition. However, you will not find it in the scriptures. Apostolic tradition is the oral word of God, whereas the scriptures are the written word of God.

“Question: Have you any other way of proving that the [Catholic] Church has the power to institute festivals of precept?

It’s summed up nicely in the above answers.

 

[CatholicLover]

The SDAs demand worship on the Saturday Sabbath – or else be marked with the SDA mark fo the beast and go to hell. That is demonic legalistic rubbish.

SDAs choose to follow the pinhole view of Ellen White and her interpretations of the bible. This is a woman who had demonic “visions” of Enoch on a planet with four moons.

Catholics choose to follow the Word of God and apostolic teachings (apostolic traditions), as interpreted by the magestarium.

Worship on the Seventh Day Sabbath is not an Adventist demand, it’s a Commandment of God. To call God’s law demonic legalistic rubbish seems wreckless to me.

Regarding the vision of Enoch on a planet with four moons, yes, it sounds a little silly when you put it all together like that. Look at the parts of it though.

• I think we can agree that Enoch is in heaven.
• I hope we can agree that the possibility exists that God created life on other planets. The Catholic Church does appear open to the possibility - findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_m1141/is_17_40/ai_114009577/
• We know some planets have 4 moons.

If we can agree on all of these things Ellen White’s statement doesn’t seem so strange. I’m not sure why you are focusing on that one statement though. She has far more meaningful things to say.

 

[me_again]

Worship on the Seventh Day Sabbath is not an Adventist demand, it’s a Commandment of God. To call God’s law demonic legalistic rubbish seems wreckless to me.

Before Ellen White died, she taught that you must attend church on Saturday – or go to hell with the SDA mark of the beast.

Regarding the vision of Enoch on a planet with four moons, yes, it sounds a little silly when you put it all together like that. Look at the parts of it though.

• I think we can agree that Enoch is in heaven.
• I hope we can agree that the possibility exists that God created life on other planets. The Catholic Church does appear open to the possibility - findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_m1141/is_17_40/ai_114009577/
• We know some planets have 4 moons.

If we can agree on all of these things Ellen White’s statement doesn’t seem so strange. I’m not sure why you are focusing on that one statement though. She has far more meaningful things to say.

Ellen White was a liar who had demonically inspired visions. She mixed truths with lies to give the lies more credibility. Satan did the same thing in the garden of Eden – and Satan did it in the 1800s through mouthpieces such as Ellen White, Mary Baker Eddy, Charles Taze Russell, Joseph Smith and many other cult leaders.

 

[BibleTruth]

Adventist theology is based upon the writings and teachings of Ellen White and upon “sola scriptura”. It is a known fact that interpreting and understanding scripture by “sola scriptura” results in a myriad of confusing and conflicting results. This has been proven many timesover and also by the extraordinary number of Protestant denominations each one claiming to have arrived at its conclusion under the guidance of the Holy Spirit.
At this point it is extremely difficult to accept any denomination’s theology, no matter how licit it may seem.

Jesus founded only one Church and He gave it His full authority ( Mat. 16:17-19 ). This Church is the Catholic Church and it alone has the Christ given authority to interpret scripture. It also has been guided and protected from error by the Holy Spirit for these past 2000 years. Proof of this is that the Catholic Church teaches the same truths given it by Jesus and the Apostles today as when they were first given…

Each item you have listed, and asked, has been presented and answered many times before. Everything that the Church does and teaches is supported by scripture. You have only to read and understand. I suggest that you read and study about the early Church and Church Fathers. They have all the answers you want.

PAX DOMINI

Shalom Aleichem

How do you condemn a religion that relies solely on the Bible when the Bible teaches how to interpret it?

"For precept must be upon precept, precept upon precept; line upon line, line upon line; here a little, and there a little: For with stammering lips and another tongue will he speak to this people. To whom he said, This is the rest wherewith ye may cause the weary to rest; and this is the refreshing: yet they would not hear. But the word of the LORD was unto them precept upon precept, precept upon precept; line upon line, line upon line; here a little, and there a little; that they might go, and fall backward, and be broken, and snared, and taken. Wherefore hear the word of the LORD, ye scornful men, that rule this people which is in Jerusalem. Isaiah 28:10-14.

When Jesus defended Himself against Satan, He prefaced His responses with “It is written”. The place it was “written” in was the Old Testament “scriptures”. This foundation existed long before the scriptures were canonized.

What’s really funny is that, again, you condemn the SDA church for believing in “sola scriptura” when just about every Catholic person I encounter uses a “sole” passage to attempt to defend its position.

Just AFTER the passage you cited, Jesus condemns Peter for doubting Him and calls Satan out of him!

“Then Peter took him, and began to rebuke him, saying, Be it far from thee, Lord: this shall not be unto thee. But he turned, and said unto Peter, Get thee behind me, Satan: thou art an offence unto me: for thou savourest not the things that be of God, but those that be of men.” Matthew 16:23.

 

[Protestant101]

At this very second, no. However, I’ve read most of the SDA literature and if you’ve never read this, then it’s shocking. If the exact source is provided to you, then will it make you realize that Ellen White was a liar who mixed truth with lies to gain credibility? Pray tell? If it will do that, then the exact source will be researched and provided for your spiritual edification.

Note to self**:** Ellen White claimed to see Enoch on planet Venus during one of her demonic visions.

Like I said; when you can provide the exact reference for this claim; then we can examine the CONTEXT which of course you want us to do with Catholic teachings, so before you go saying something, you should be able to prove it, or why say it?

 

[Javl]

Please show me from the following verses what day the apostles, Jews and non-Jews had corporate worship:

Acts 13:14: But when they departed from Perga, they came to Antioch in Pisidia, and went into the synagogue on the sabbath day, and sat down.

Acts 13:42: And when the Jews were gone out of the synagogue, the Gentiles besought that these words might be preached to them the next sabbath.

Acts 13:44: And the next sabbath day came almost the whole city together to hear the word of God.

Acts 16:13: And on the sabbath we went out of the city by a river side, where prayer was wont to be made; and we sat down, and spake unto the women which resorted thither.

Acts 17:2: And Paul, as his manner was, went in unto them, and three sabbath days reasoned with them out of the scriptures,

Acts 18:4: And he reasoned in the synagogue every sabbath, and persuaded the Jews and the Greeks.

Do you really believe in your heart that the Sabbath was changed when there is nothing in Scripture making that claim?

Yes, the Sabbath was originally kept by the early Christians on a Saturday and they worshipped in the synagogue. That is fact.

But it is also fact that there arose a serious dispute about worshipping Jesus between the Jews and the Christians. This resulted in the Christians being expelled from all the synagogues. Because of this expulsion, the early Christians started meeting in private homes for worship and celebration of the Agape. Many of these homes later became Christian ( Catholic ) Churches. Also, since Jesus gave them the authority to “bind and loose” ( Mat.16:19 ), they celebrated the Sabbath on Sunday “the Lord’s Day”. This is not in violation of the Decalog, because they had the God given authority to do so ( unless, of course, you do not believe that Jesus is God and that He could not give the early Christians any authority ).

PAX DOMINI

Shalom Aleichem

 

[CatholicLover]

Since there’s a topic, I have a few questions for the SDA’s here.

1. The Gregorian calender was adopted in the 1500’s. What guarantee can you provide that when the switch was made, Saturday STAYED Saturday. In other words - how do we know that when the calender was changed, the old Saturday didn’t overlap with/BECOME the new Sunday, so that today, on what we now call Sunday is actually the sabbath of biblical times?
2. For what reason do you conclude that the sabbath is on Saturday in the first place? Scripture does tell us that the sabbath is on the 7th day of the week, but exactly what the 7th day of the week is varies from country to country. In the United States, Saturday is the 7th day, but in many other countries, Sunday is considered 7th.
3. For what reason do you conclude that the sabbath is to be our day of worship? I know what you’re thinking. You’re thinking that I must be crazy, but seriously - ask yourself this question. I’ve read the bible. It tells us to rest on the sabbath. It tells us to keep the sabbath holy. But nowhere does the bible tell us to worship on the sabbath. So why do you?

I hope these answers are sufficient. I’m sure others could do a more thorough job.

1 - My understanding is that although the Gregorian calendar was adopted throughout the Christian world, the Jews didn’t adopt it. The Jewish calendar provides proof that the Sabbath remains unchanged.

2 - My first answer also applies to your second question.

3 - My personal belief is that God welcomes worship no matter what day it is. You’re right, His instruction is to keep His Sabbath Holy. I can think of no better way to do that than to worship him on that day.

 

[BibleTruth]

When Paul met with them for their Sunday mass, he wanted them to be ready (orderly).

That helped to set a precedent that was used by the apostles to celebrate the resurrection on Sunday.

Either way, this Sunday preaching was a precedent that was established by the apostles.

The celebrations of Jesus’ resurrection on Sundays was oftentimes done from house-to-house – unlike the mega-churches of the 21st Century.

This helped to establish the Sunday precedent to celebrate Jesus’ resurrection!

The apostles also had open hearts and they were open to the leading of the Holy Spirit when they began celebrating Jesus’ resurrection on Sunday aka the Lord’s day.

In the Jewish vernacular, the Sabbath was still Saturday, but the Lord’s day was celebrated on Sunday. During their writings and speakings, they used the current vernacular. Thus, the apostles appropriately referred to Saturday as the sabbath. It is appropriate vernacular. But the Christians still separated themselves from the unbelieving Jews in the Saturday sabbath synagogues by celebrating the resurrection of Jesus Christ on Sundays.

You are in error, reference Rev. 1:10. The vision given to John was on the Lord’s day (Sunday) and not on Saturday.

It is done by apostolic tradition. The apostles initiated Sunday gatherings and we’ve continued this tradition for 2000 years. However, Ellen White started to have strange “visions” in 1844, such as seeing Enoch visiting a planet with four moons**;** and Ellen White made the claim that Christians must worship on the Jewish Saturday sabbath → or else they would receive the SDA mark of the beast and go to hell.

The apostles also told their disciples that Jesus didn’t have wives or children. That’s called apostolic tradition. However, you will not find it in the scriptures. Apostolic tradition is the oral word of God, whereas the scriptures are the written word of God.

It’s summed up nicely in the above answers.

Your responses are subjective and lack any foundation. They appear to be based on your feelings and lack of information and not Bible fact.

No tradition can change God’s word, which is exactly what you’re suggesting happened. If Jesus wouldn’t even change His law, why would He let man change it?

The Church is founded on the ROCK, Jesus Christ, and is made equally available to whosoever believes in Him. What a beautiful reality!

 

[Protestant101]

Hi all, I hope you don’t mind if I jump into this discussion. This is my first post on these forums so let me first explain my username ‘CatholicLover’. I am Seventh Day Adventist but my wife is Catholic and (believe it or not) we’ve been happily married for 10 years, hence the name ‘CatholicLover’.
I’ve been following this thread with interest for what are probably obvious reasons and I’d like to think I have a fairly unique perspective on the topics in this thread. For the most part it’s been a fairly civil discussion between people who clearly love God and I find that quite exciting. There are post in this thread though that (although based in the belief of one party or the other) are quite insulting. I think it’s possible to have this dicussion minus the insulting retoric, so as I enter this discussion I’ll endeavor to have a kind heart and open mind.

Good post! May God continue to bless you & your wife.

 

[BibleTruth]

Since there’s a topic, I have a few questions for the SDA’s here.

1. For what reason do you conclude that the sabbath is to be our day of worship? I know what you’re thinking. You’re thinking that I must be crazy, but seriously - ask yourself this question. I’ve read the bible. It tells us to rest on the sabbath. It tells us to keep the sabbath holy. But nowhere does the bible tell us to worship on the sabbath. So why do you?

“Six days shall work be done: but the seventh day is the sabbath of rest, an holy convocation; ye shall do no work therein: it is the sabbath of the LORD in all your dwellings.” Leviticus 23:3.

A “convocation” is the same things as a sacred assembly. Hebrews 10:25 says that we should not forsake the assembling of ourselves together.

 

[me_again]

Please show me from the following verses what day the apostles, Jews and non-Jews had corporate worship:

Thank you. Much obliged.

Acts 13:14: But when they departed from Perga, they came to Antioch in Pisidia, and went into the synagogue on the sabbath day, and sat down.

The apostles were “sent” to preach the word. They went into the Jewish synagogues and proselytized the Jewish leaders and the Jewish people with the message of the risen Christ!!!

Acts 13:42: And when the Jews were gone out of the synagogue, the Gentiles besought that these words might be preached to them the next sabbath.

After the apostles preached the good news of Jesus to the unbelieving Jews in the synagogue on the Saturday sabbath, the gentiles also heard the message – and the gentiles wanted to hear more about it!!!

Acts 13:44: And the next sabbath day came almost the whole city together to hear the word of God.

The apostles were dynamic speakers and they aroused the entire city with the message that Jesus rose from the dead. They went throughout Judea preaching to the unbelieving Jews in their synagogues on the Saturday sabbath. Most of the apostles preached to the unbelieving Jews in their Saturday sabbath services. The Apostle Paul eventually left the Jewish synagogues and he preached primarily to the gentiles.

Even though the Christians were celebrating the resurrection of Christ on the Lord’s day (Sunday), the apostles continued to preach to the unbelieving Jews in their synagogues on the Jewish Saturday sabbath.

Acts 16:13: And on the sabbath we went out of the city by a river side, where prayer was wont to be made; and we sat down, and spake unto the women which resorted thither.

They continued to preach to the Jews on their Saturday sabbath because that was the best day of the week to proselytize them.

Acts 17:2: And Paul, as his manner was, went in unto them, and three sabbath days reasoned with them out of the scriptures, Acts 18:4: And he reasoned in the synagogue every sabbath, and persuaded the Jews and the Greeks.

Thank goodness that Paul was so tenacious in his preaching to the Jews on the Jewish Saturday sabbath. However, there came a point-in-time where the Lord directed him to focus exclusively on the gentiles, whereupon he didn’t preach to the unbelieving Jews as much on their Saturday sabbath. Instead, he focused on the new believers, the new Christians – and we have celebrated Jesus’ resurrection on Sunday’s lo all these years.

Do you really believe in your heart that the Sabbath was changed when there is nothing in Scripture making that claim?

The above writings beautifully answer your question.

 

[BibleTruth]

Yes, the Sabbath was originally kept by the early Christians on a Saturday and they worshipped in the synagogue. That is fact.

But it is also fact that there arose a serious dispute about worshipping Jesus between the Jews and the Christians. This resulted in the Christians being expelled from all the synagogues. Because of this expulsion, the early Christians started meeting in private homes for worship and celebration of the Agape. Many of these homes later became Christian ( Catholic ) Churches. Also, since Jesus gave them the authority to “bind and loose” ( Mat.16:19 ), they celebrated the Sabbath on Sunday “the Lord’s Day”. This is not in violation of the Decalog, because they had the God given authority to do so ( unless, of course, you do not believe that Jesus is God and that He could not give the early Christians any authority ).

PAX DOMINI

Shalom Aleichem

I don’t believe the Bible states that Jesus gave the authority that was His over to sinful man (read Matt. 16:23).

Later, in the same book (28:18-20), Jesus reiterates that all power is given unto Him. He empowers us through His Holy Spirit to take the Gospel message to the world. But He is still the foundation.

God’s church uphold’s His commandments (Rev. 12:17; 14:12). They don’t attempt to change them.

 

[me_again]

“Six days shall work be done: but the seventh day is the sabbath of rest, an holy convocation; ye shall do no work therein: it is the sabbath of the LORD in all your dwellings.” Leviticus 23:3.

A “convocation” is the same things as a sacred assembly. Hebrews 10:25 says that we should not forsake the assembling of ourselves together.

For violating which of the 10 commandments are Christians authorized to stone people to death?

Why can’t Christians stone people to death for violating the 10 commandments?

Jesus wrote the 10 commandments with His own finger-in-stone**;** and Jesus was nailed to the cross**;** the Finger of God was nailed to a cross**:** we are now free from the law.

Christians now have a new commandment written on the fleshly tablets of their hearts. Jesus said, “a new commandment I give you, that you love one another, even as I have loved you.” If we do this, then we fulfill the intent of the 10 commandments.

However, SDAs are not free from the law. Ellen Gould White preached that you must worship on the Saturday Sabbath – or you are going to hell with the SDA mark of the beast.

Adventism is littered with doctrines of demons.

 

[BibleTruth]

The above writings beautifully answer your question.

No…they don’t actually.

 

[me_again]

No…they don’t actually.

That’s because you’re enslaved to the demonic writings of Ellen Gould White. “Come out of her.”

 

[Farsight001]

I hope these answers are sufficient. I’m sure others could do a more thorough job.

1 - My understanding is that although the Gregorian calendar was adopted throughout the Christian world, the Jews didn’t adopt it. The Jewish calendar provides proof that the Sabbath remains unchanged.

2 - My first answer also applies to your second question.

3 - My personal belief is that God welcomes worship no matter what day it is. You’re right, His instruction is to keep His Sabbath Holy. I can think of no better way to do that than to worship him on that day.

1. • while not an unreasonable answer, the issue of how we know the days line up remains. Having the Jewish calender around does provide evidence, but personally, I don’t quite see it as enough because then we have the question as to whether or not the Jewish calender itself shifted a day or two some time in history.
2. • I really don’t see at all how the first answer applies to the 2nd.
3. • But with that answer you have a serious problem involving SDA theology, which declares Sunday worship the mark of the beast. I certainly agree that God welcomes worship no matter what day it is. It’s part of the reason I love Catholicism - we can go to church on every day of the week if we want. But your problem remains - that Sunday worship is NOT ok for you. In addition, while you may be able to think of no better way to keep the sabbath holy than to worship on that day, it still does not answer the question - where are we COMMANDED to worship on the sabbath?

 

[CatholicLover]

Before Ellen White died, she taught that you must attend church on Saturday – or go to hell with the SDA mark of the beast.

Ellen White was a liar who had demonically inspired visions. She mixed truths with lies to give the lies more credibility. Satan did the same thing in the garden of Eden – and Satan did it in the 1800s through mouthpieces such as Ellen White, Mary Baker Eddy, Charles Taze Russell, Joseph Smith and many other cult leaders.

I’m not sure what to say to this except I strongly disagree.

 

[Protestant101]

SDAs choose to follow the pinhole view of Ellen White and her interpretations of the bible. This is a woman who had demonic “visions” of Enoch on a planet with four moons.

When will you be providing the references for this statement? Or has the proverbial cat got your tongue?

 

[me_again]

I’m not sure what to say to this except I strongly disagree.

Of course you disagree**;** that’s because you’re an Adventist and you espouse the demonic teachings of Ellen Gould White, who was a liar with demonic visions of Enoch on other planets in the solar system [sic].

Rid yourself of those demonic SDA teachings and “come out of her.”

 

[BibleTruth]

And what, pray tell, does that have to do with the Catholic Church? Please do not come up with the same tired argument that “Babylon represents the Church”. If you read further in Chapter 17 you will see that the punishment of Babylon is described as a past event, not a future one. It is speaking of Rome and the pagan kings subject to Rome and the cult of the Emperor. Most likely it is speaking of the reign of Nero. Chapter 19 even alludes to Babylon persecuting the Church. Well, there was only one Church at that time and it was the Catholic Church and I don’t think the Church was persecuting itself.

In Revelation 17:11, the eighth king (the papacy after the results of Revelation 13) is “of the seven” (speaking of the papal rule until it received its deadly wound in 1798, when it was the fifth kingdom). Verse 8 is clear on this: The beast that thou sawest was, and is not; and shall ascend out of the bottomless pit, and go into perdition.

I encourage you to study the foundation of end-time prophecy in Daniel before trying to understand Revelation 17. Otherwise, you’ll be lost. Daniel was clear that the first kingdoms were Babylon, Medo-Persia and Greece. History revealed that the fourth kingdom was Rome and that the spiritual kingdom that would come out of Rome was the RCC. These are historical facts…not mean-spirited conjecture.

It’s not a tired argument if it’s true. It’s just not easy for everyone to accept. It takes humility for any one of us to accept that we’re living in error. But God’s word is meant to cut to the core to reveal the desires of the heart (Hebrews 4:12). What’s interesting about that verse is that it comes after a clear New Testament reference to the fact that the seventh-day Sabbath is STILL God’s holy day.