Info on SDA

[me_again]

Believing in the immortal soul is believing Satan’s lie that “you will not surely die” (Gen. 3:4). It’s a lie he’s been perpetuating throughout the ages.

Ms. SDA BibleTruth, when Adam & Eve died a mortal death, their mortal bodies died, but their consciousness did not. They went to the same abode where Father Abraham eventually followed to in Jesus’ story of Lazarus and the rich man. Adam & Eve had never experienced a mortal death – and they believed Satan’s like that they would not suffer a mortal death. Their mortal bodies died, but their consciousness (souls) lived on.

Jesus makes clear in His story of Lazarus and the rich man that they still had consciousness after the death of their mortal bodies. Do you dare to contradict the testimony of the Lord Jesus Christ?

If you contradict the Lord Jesus, then you are in heresy.

 

[RonTheNewJew]

And you are in direct violation of God’s command by refusing to acknowledge the authority he gave his Church.
Rev 5 And he that sat on the throne, said: Behold, I make all things new. And he said to me: Write, for these words are most faithful and true.

Jesus made ALL things new. You seem to reject that by clinging to the old law…Law that you cannot follow and only condems those who cling to it. Read the bible

Gal 2: 16 But knowing that man is not justified by the works of the law, but by the faith of Jesus Christ; we also believe in Christ Jesus, that we may be justified by the faith of Christ, and not by the works of the law: because by the works of the law no flesh shall be justified.

When Jesus said, “Behold, I make all things new,” what he was saying is two things:
A. That, up to that point in time (when He was here on earth in human flesh), and lived the Law He gave to Moses, perfectly, then gave up his innocent life as past and future propitiation for man’s sinful breaking of that Law. If man accepted the Covenant, with God’s promises of forgiveness (justification), and to work with us to bring us into conforming relationship with God (sanctification), found in Exodus 34, along with His requirements which, if we keep those requirements while seeing the good and loving decency described by the doing of those requirements, we become sanctified by God who gave the Ten Commandments,with the supporting ordinances, statutes and judgments, we can all have salvation because of the grace Yeshua/Jesus provides

Let’s also be truly respectful to one another. There are many loving and kind Catholics and Seventh-day Adventists, and, perhaps even a few such good people among us Messianic Jews. We try. Ye verechecha Adonai. The Lord bless you, including those who worship today. And for me, as next Sabbath is also our 36th wedding anniversay. (to only one woman. None before or after her. I am blessed.

 

[greggy53]

When Jesus said, “Behold, I make all things new,” what he was saying is two things:
A. That, up to that point in time (when He was here on earth in human flesh), and lived the Law He gave to Moses, perfectly, then gave up his innocent life as past and future propitiation for man’s sinful breaking of that Law. If man accepted the Covenant, with God’s promises of forgiveness (justification), and to work with us to bring us into conforming relationship with God (sanctification), found in Exodus 34, along with His requirements which, if we keep those requirements while seeing the good and loving decency described by the doing of those requirements, we become sanctified by God who gave the Ten Commandments,with the supporting ordinances, statutes and judgments, we can all have salvation because of the grace Yeshua/Jesus provides.

Jesus lived the law perfectly because he was and is the law, and yet was accused of breaking the law of Mosses on several occaisons. We cannot achieve salavation by keeping the law of Mosses. We do not earn sanctification under any circumstances under any set of requirements, supporting ordinances, statutes or judgements… Salvation is given for those who believe in Jesus Christ. Period. Paragraph. End of story. That message is in every book of the NT.
Gal2: 16 But knowing that man is not justified by the works of the law, but by the faith of Jesus Christ; we also believe in Christ Jesus, that we may be justified by the faith of Christ, and not by the works of the law: because by the works of the law no flesh shall be justified.

Let’s also be truly respectful to one another. There are many loving and kind Catholics and Seventh-day Adventists, and, perhaps even a few such good people among us Messianic Jews. We try. Ye verechecha Adonai. The Lord bless you, including those who worship today. And for me, as next Sabbath is also our 36th wedding anniversay. (to only one woman. None before or after her. I am blessed.

Respect is earned and I have seen absolutely no respect from the SDA for our Church and it’s leaders. Time and time again SDA’s that I run into here on this forum speak of respect and Christian love and then slander our Church with lies and false accusations. They speak out of both sides of thier mouths and I for one unfortunately do not trust anything they say to be genuine or without ulterior motive.

 

[Richard_Kastner]

And you are in direct violation of God’s command by refusing to acknowledge the authority he gave his Church.
Rev 5 And he that sat on the throne, said: Behold, I make all things new. And he said to me: Write, for these words are most faithful and true.

Jesus made ALL things new. You seem to reject that by clinging to the old law…Law that you cannot follow and only condems those who cling to it. Read the bible

You think that God gave us all these commandments, knowing that we can’t keep them

Gal 2: 16 But knowing that man is not justified by the works of the law, but by the faith of Jesus Christ; we also believe in Christ Jesus, that we may be justified by the faith of Christ, and not by the works of the law: because by the works of the law no flesh shall be justified.

This verse does not do away with the law. It only states that we are not justified by keeping it (works). But then we never were were we? We are justified by faith in Jesus and His sacrifice. Let me ask you greggy. Do you think that you can be justified if you don’t keep the law?

 

[Javl]

Believe it or not, accept it or not, the Law and the covenant with the Jews is/was for the Jews alone. Those that accepted Christ and became/are His followers are NOT BOUND to the Law. The whole Law was fulfilled ( kept and completed) by Jesus and was nailed to the cross with Him. Our salvation is not dependent upon the Law, as is the Jews, but upon total and complete acceptance, submission to, and faith in Jesus.

As God ( and the God who gave the Law ) He gave His Apostles and all His disciples two new commandments and a new and everlasting covenant, all of which are still in force today. The Apostles and early Christians understood all this and passed this Holy Tradition on to subsequent believers down to the present day. It cannot be that mainline Christendom is in error, as per the SDA, because the Church is the BODY OF CHRIST.. Therefore the Church cannot err. If the Church does err, then Jesus is not and cannot be who He claims to be.

PAX DOMINI

Shalom Aleichem

 

[Richard_Kastner]

Believe it or not, accept it or not, the Law and the covenant with the Jews is/was for the Jews alone. Those that accepted Christ and became/are His followers are NOT BOUND to the Law. The whole Law was fulfilled ( kept and completed) by Jesus and was nailed to the cross with Him. Our salvation is not dependent upon the Law, as is the Jews, but upon total and complete acceptance, submission to, and faith in Jesus.

As God ( and the God who gave the Law ) He gave His Apostles and all His disciples two new commandments and a new and everlasting covenant, all of which are still in force today. The Apostles and early Christians understood all this and passed this Holy Tradition on to subsequent believers down to the present day. It cannot be that mainline Christendom is in error, as per the SDA, because the Church is the BODY OF CHRIST.. Therefore the Church cannot err. If the Church does err, then Jesus is not and cannot be who He claims to be.

PAX DOMINI

Shalom Aleichem

So you are saying that there are two means of salvation. One by faith in Jesus for Christians. The other exclusive of Jesus and by the keeping of the law for the Jews. Wouldn’t that make a whole bunch of the bible a lie.

Jn.14
6Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me.

Gal.2
16Knowing that a man is not justified by the works of the law, but by the faith of Jesus Christ, even we have believed in Jesus Christ, that we might be justified by the faith of Christ, and not by the works of the law: for by the works of the law shall no flesh be justified.

And many, many more.

 

[Javl]

So you are saying that there are two means of salvation. One by faith in Jesus for Christians. The other exclusive of Jesus and by the keeping of the law for the Jews. Wouldn’t that make a whole bunch of the bible a lie.

Jn.14
6Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me.

Gal.2
16Knowing that a man is not justified by the works of the law, but by the faith of Jesus Christ, even we have believed in Jesus Christ, that we might be justified by the faith of Christ, and not by the works of the law: for by the works of the law shall no flesh be justified.

And many, many more.

Our salvation is by faith in and acceptance of Jesus. Then what about the Jew who does not accept Jesus, nor believe in Him. Is that Jew then condemned to hell? If so, then God is breaking His covenant with these Jews. I keep trying to tell you, the old Law was for the Jews alone and not the Gentiles. Jesus gave His followers a new Law and covenant. The Jewish converts continued in the old Law but they were not compelled to do so. Belief in Jesus is all that is required for salvation. That is His teaching as you have posted above.

 

[greggy53]

You think that God gave us all these commandments, knowing that we can’t keep them?

If we could we’d still be in the garden of Eden. Our first parents couldn’t even keep one commandment let alone the hundreds in the OT.

This verse does not do away with the law. It only states that we are not justified by keeping it (works). But then we never were were we? We are justified by faith in Jesus and His sacrifice. Let me ask you greggy. Do you think that you can be justified if you don’t keep the law?

The verse says what is says my friend you can’t wish it away. … Yes I can because I believe in Jesus Christ and that he alone can redeem me. I rely on his mercy and grace and with that grace and his grace only can I live right. I can’t redeem myself through works, or the law. Good works are important because the scriptures says we are not saved by faith alone, but works (the law) alone, or faith alone won’t do it.

 

[BibleTruth]

Again, yes. His Church does uphold His commandments, but under His authority to bind and loose, the Church holds “the Lords Day” ( Sunday ) as the Sabbath. Please understand that Sabbath DOES NOT mean Saturday. Sabbath means REST. The commandment states to keep the Sabbath holy and not Saturday. We work six days and rest on the seventh, dedicating it to God.
My work week begins on a Monday and my Sabbath day is Sunday. I AM NOT in violation of the commandment..

Shalom Aleichem

God made the seventh-day holy…not the first.

Trust in the LORD with all thine heart; and lean not unto thine own understanding. In all thy ways acknowledge him, and he shall direct thy paths. Proverbs 3:5-6.

 

[Protestant101]

Jesus lived the law perfectly because he was and is the law,

Well; now you are really in a pickle. If Jesus “is the law;” then you preach that Jesus did away with Himself on the cross! Yikes!

I for one unfortunately do not trust anything they say to be genuine or without ulterior motive.

I feel sorry for people who have to go through life thinking like this about others.

 

[KathleenGee]

Bibletruth,

Our holiness is not found on a certain day of the week…it is founded on Jesus Christ.

 

[Javl]

God made the seventh-day holy…not the first.

Trust in the LORD with all thine heart; and lean not unto thine own understanding. In all thy ways acknowledge him, and he shall direct thy paths. Proverbs 3:5-6.

Yes. He said to work six days and to rest on the seventh and keep it Holy. He DID NOT SAY that Saturday is the seventh day, it was man who decided that. My seventh day is Sunday. I keep it holy and dedicate it to God!

PAX DOMINI

Shalom Aleichem

 

[greggy53]

Well; now you are really in a pickle. If Jesus “is the law;” then you preach that Jesus did away with Himself on the cross! Yikes!

I feel sorry for people who have to go through life thinking like this about others.

Jesus didn’t eliminate the law he fulfilled the law.

 

[Rexpi]

No, you’re deductive reasoning is flawed**;** you are not allowed to commit adultery or fornication because the New Testament says that adulterers and fornicators will not enter the kingdom of heaven. However, nowhere in the New Testament does it say that failing to honor the Saturday Jewish Sabbath will cause someone to go to hell.

Oh really? In that case can you show us where in the new testament appears the 3rd commandment?

 

[CatholicLover]

Yes. He said to work six days and to rest on the seventh and keep it Holy. He DID NOT SAY that Saturday is the seventh day, it was man who decided that. My seventh day is Sunday. I keep it holy and dedicate it to God!

PAX DOMINI

Shalom Aleichem

Exodus 16:23 shows that the Isrealites were told by God which day was the 7th day. God gave them manna each day for 6 days of the week. On the sixth day they were commanded by God to gather twice as much manna so they would not have to gather any on the Sabbath day. In fact, no manna fell on the 7th day. That shows that the Jewish calendar is correct and by extension that Saturday is the Sabbath day. It was not man’s decision, it came directly from God.

 

[RonTheNewJew]

As far as whether someone will, or will not, die if someone forgets to keep the Shabbat (seventh day Sabbath) holy, it all depends on whether one decides to become a part of “Abraham’s seed, and heirs according to the promises given to Abraham.” Yeshua (Jesus) said, “He who does and keeps even the least of these commandments, and teaches men to do likewise, he shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven. He who does not do and keep even the least of these commandments, teaches men to do likewise, he shall be called the least in the kingdom of heaven.” Jesus was talking about the “law and the prophets.” That includes the God-written Ten Commandments, and the Moses-written, but God-given Torah.

As far as whether Yeshua had died or not when He was crucified, it says “He gave up the ghost.” I think that He had willed his own death and that, yes, he was, in fact, dead when He bowed His head. But, the fact that He was dead, yet was raised early on the third day of Passover, which comes on a different day each year, and begins on the 15th day of Nisan with the third day also thereby coming on a different day each year and is the day of the “early first fruits,” that all this is proof of the fact that the Godhead is composed of three separate persons, Who are united in spirit and purpose and have always existed.
I don’t know how Adventists or Catholics view the Godhead.

Jesus died, thereby paying the price of sin OUR’s. His Father accepted His Son’s sin offering, which the Son had, in the Garden of Gethsemane, at one point prayed to "the Father that this cup (Justification: one of the four cups of the Seder celebration) could pass from Him. God and His Son are One (in Spirit and Truth) That is what we Messianic Jews understand the meaning of the Schma Israel to mean.

Satan tried to stay as near to Jesus as possible all the way through Jesus’ terrible ordeal, to tempt Jesus into giving up “this cup.” Satan wanted to conquer God through his efforts to get Jesus to stop the crucifiction from going forward. I speculate that Satan told Jesus something like: “Why go through all this? You could zap everyone gathered here, and end your suffering, and come and join me in a new kingdom” of some kind. But, Jesus said “NO” to Satan. Thank God, Jesus resisted the tempter.

We know that Jesus prayed to His Father the Lord’s Prayer. When Jesus was baptized, His Father sent the Holy Spirit in the form of a white dove. He died to show that He conquered death when He was raised from it, regardless of exactly how He was raised, or by Whom.

Shalom

 

[KathleenGee]

Ron the Jew,

Jesus Christ makes all things new…and it is better we maintain the leadings of the Holy Spirit from our earliest Christian believers and leaders.

We do not worship a day. Sabbath was for man…On Resurrection Sunday we are not to do any unnecessary work, but to reflect on the Lord in gratitude. I have to go to Mass at the Saturday vigil, and from that point on I sense the sacredness of time…fortunately I am privately serving very devout Christians who keep Sunday holy, so it is a quiet and caring day of serving for me for those who can’t totally help themselves.

Continuity and unity and trust in the administrative leadership of the ecclesia that is handed down generation after generation because Jesus said He called us to be One.

The two lampstands are Judaism and Christianity and we are approaching the glorious time of the ingrafting.

Check out Pave the Way Organization that was founded by Jewish people working for better inter-religious relationships and what they found out about the Catholic Church. They do not understand why the Church doesn’t use its own historical documents to defend itself…the ecclesiastics are dealing with so much every day in the Church of today that they don’t have time…few laborers in a great harvest.

 

[Richard_Kastner]

Our salvation is by faith in and acceptance of Jesus. Then what about the Jew who does not accept Jesus, nor believe in Him. Is that Jew then condemned to hell? If so, then God is breaking His covenant with these Jews. I keep trying to tell you, the old Law was for the Jews alone and not the Gentiles. Jesus gave His followers a new Law and covenant. The Jewish converts continued in the old Law but they were not compelled to do so. Belief in Jesus is all that is required for salvation. That is His teaching as you have posted above.

If I asked you who did God make the old covenant with. You would probably and correctly say with Israel. If I asked whether you were under the old or new covenant you would probably and correctly say the new covenant.

If I asked you who the new covenant is with? What would your answer be?

Jeremiah 31:31-33
31Behold, the days come, saith the LORD, that I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel, and with the house of Judah:

32Not according to the covenant that I made with their fathers in the day that I took them by the hand to bring them out of the land of Egypt; which my covenant they brake, although I was an husband unto them, saith the LORD:

33But this shall be the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel; After those days, saith the LORD, I will put my law in their inward parts, and write it in their hearts; and will be their God, and they shall be my people.

Hebrews 8:6-10

6But now hath he obtained a more excellent ministry, by how much also he is the mediator of a better covenant, which was established upon better promises.

7For if that first covenant had been faultless, then should no place have been sought for the second.

8For finding fault with them, he saith, Behold, the days come, saith the Lord, when **I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel and with the house of Judah: **

9Not according to the covenant that I made with their fathers in the day when I took them by the hand to lead them out of the land of Egypt; because they continued not in my covenant, and I regarded them not, saith the Lord.

10For this is the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel after those days, saith the Lord; I will put my laws into their mind, and write them in their hearts: and I will be to them a God, and they shall be to me a people:

These passages from Jer.31 and Heb.8 clearly show us that the New Covenant is made with the House of Israel. Ok, This begs the question. What does the Bible/God mean by the children of Israel?

Romans 9:6-8 “Not as though the word of God has taken none effect. For they are not all Israel, which are of Israel: 7 Neither, because they are the seed of Abraham, are they all children: but, In Isaac shall your seed be called. 8 That is, They which are the children of the flesh, these are not the children of God: but the children of the promise are counted for the seed.”

What promise? You might ask.

Genesis 12:1Now the LORD had said unto Abram, Get thee out of thy country, and from thy kindred, and from thy father’s house, unto a land that I will shew thee:

2And I will make of thee a great nation, and I will bless thee, and make thy name great; and thou shalt be a blessing:

3And I will bless them that bless thee, and curse him that curseth thee: and in thee shall all families of the earth be blessed.

The promise is right here in Gen.12. It says that in the seed of Abraham all the families of the earth shall be blessed. That blessing is of coarse the promise of the Savior. The promise of a Messiah. That blessing is refering to the promise of the comming of Jesus Christ.

Now Javl I would like you to read this text very carefully.

Galatians 3:28-29 “There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither bond nor free, there is neither male nor female: for you are all one in Christ Jesus. 29 And if you be Christ’s, then are you Abraham’s seed, and heirs according to the promise.”

God had a chosen people for two reasons. Those reasons are The Law and The Prophets. It is through the Jews that God gave to man the Law. The law has one function. That being to show man that he is a sinner.

Rom.3:20Therefore by the deeds of the law there shall no flesh be justified in his sight: for by the law is the knowledge of sin.

But also to show the solution to the sin problem. The Prophets.

Rev19:10b for the testimony of Jesus is the spirit of prophecy.

We need to become spiritual Jews Because Jn.4:22b salvation is of the Jews.

Rom.2:27And shall not uncircumcision which is by nature, if it fulfil the law, judge thee, who by the letter and circumcision dost transgress the law?

28For he is not a Jew, which is one outwardly; neither is that circumcision, which is outward in the flesh:

29But he is a Jew, which is one inwardly; and circumcision is that of the heart, in the spirit, and not in the letter; whose praise is not of men, but of God.

Rom.2:27 tells us that if the uncircumcised, in the flesh, fulfill (keep) the law. He shall judge the circumcision, in the flesh. Why? Because he has THE LAW written on his heart.
“circumcision is that of the heart” Jer.31:33 Heb.10:16

See the whole purpose of God in having a chosen people was to bring the Messiah into the world. We, meaning everyone that ever lived on this planet, are saved through faith in that Messiah. So when you say “Our salvation is by faith in and acceptance of Jesus. Then what about the Jew who does not accept Jesus, nor believe in Him. Is that Jew then condemned to hell? If so, then God is breaking His covenant with these Jews.”

The Jew that does not accept Jesus, is not a Jew, because he has not had the circumcision of the heart. He has not understood that the promise given to Abraham is fullfilled in Jesus Christ.

 

[me_again]

No, you’re deductive reasoning is flawed**;** you are not allowed to commit adultery or fornication because the New Testament says that adulterers and fornicators will not enter the kingdom of heaven. However, nowhere in the New Testament does it say that failing to honor the Saturday Jewish Sabbath will cause someone to go to hell.

Oh really? In that case can you show us where in the new testament appears the 3rd commandment?

Yes, of course.

The apostles told us not to use the Lord’s name in vain (blasphemy) because it’s part of the “moral” command**:*** Col. 3:8
biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Colossians+3:8&version=KJV
.

• Mark 7:21-23
  biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Mark+7:21-23&version=KJV
  .
• Matt. 5:37
  biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Matthew+5:37&version=KJV

You were going to write that nowhere in the New Testament did the apostles tell us not to use the Lord’s name in vain**;** and then you were going to say that similarly, since the apostles also didn’t tell us in the New Testament that we have to keep the Jewish Saturday sabbath, we must similarly keep it. However, as you can see, the apostles did tell us not to use the Lord’s name in vain**;** but the apostles did not tell us to keep the Saturday Jewish sabbath.

Next argument. :dts:

 

[KathleenGee]

Richard,

You are not showing the next step in your Bible quotes…how the true Christians integrated the Word of God into every day life.