Info on SDA

[BibleTruth]

Richard:

No matter how you cut it and spout your scriptures you are obstinate and wrong, wrong, wrong. You err in almost every respect and you have the nerve to call what Jesus, the Apostles, and the Chrch Fathers have taught “nonsense”. I’ve come to believe that you know nothing of His teachings, even though you quote scripture, and you refuse to believe and accept what is presented to you in black and white.

There are about 2 billion Christians who keep Sunday as the Sabbath. They follow the teachings and traditions as set down by the early Church. Can it be that we are all wrong and have been for 2000 years and only you and the SDA are right? Not only do I think not, I know not. You remind me too much of C.T Russell who claimed that without studying and using his “Studies in the Scriptures” you would remain in the dark, or then Mrs. Baker-Eddy and her “Key to the Scriptures”, without which you don’t know anything about God. And all the others that have come up with their own brand of theology that is diametrically opposite of what Jesus and the Apostles taught.

I honestly suggest that you read and study the total scriptures, the early and late Church Fathers, and the Didache, plus the history of the Church, and really learn about Christianity.

I know that you are a good follower of Jesus and want to please and obey Him, as we all do, but please do it the right way. Until then, peace.

PAX DOMINI

Shalom Aleichem

Enter ye in at the strait gate: for wide is the gate, and broad is the way, that leadeth to destruction, and many there be which go in thereat: Because strait is the gate, and narrow is the way, which leadeth unto life, and few there be that find it. Matthew 7:13-14.

 

[BibleTruth]

BibleTruth, sorry I am so late in responding. There have been a lot of posts between July 2nd and now.

Your response is total conjecture and you can drop the condescending attitude as far as my understanding of Revelation is concerned. You assume that Reg 17:11 is speaking of Papal rule until it received its deadly wound in 1798? I would ask where you got that date, but… why? And you claim that your interpretation is based upon “historical facts” no less.

The problem is that you have fallen into the erroneus assumption that Revelation is all “end-time prophecy”. No. It speaks of the past (the Roman Empire among other things) the present (the Catholic Mass or Divine Liturgy) and the future (the second coming of Christ). You completely ignore what I wrote about the fall of Babylon being a past event, not a future event. Most biblical scholars without an axe to grind agree that it is most likely a reference to the reign of Nero, not the Catholic Church.

The Church is instead referred to as the “bride of Christ”, the “New Jerusalem”. You would do well to join her rather than fight against her along side the enemy. Remember, Jesus asked Paul “why are you persecuting me”. Paul was persecuting the Church, the same Church that remains today, the Holy Catholic Church. When you persecute the Church, you are persecuting Christ Himself. I would ask you to instead take your own advice and in humility accept that you are in error. But I won’t hold my breath.

In your understanding, what/who is the fourth kingdom of Daniel 7?

 

[RonTheNewJew]

Maybe, but not by the apostles.

After preaching all day on the sabbath they came together to have a bite to eat after sundown which would make it the first day. There is nothing here to indicate a change in the day.

This talks about a special offering to be brought. probably mentions the first day because Paul would be comming through at this time. Nothing here indicates a change in the day.

It doesn’t even call it the first day here. This is a reference to Mark 2: 28Therefore the Son of man is Lord also of the sabbath. Which means the Lord’s day is the Sabbath.

The word of God says Ex.20: 8Remember the sabbath day, to keep it holy.

The word of God says Ex.20: 8Remember the sabbath day, to keep it holy.

Yet the word of God says Ex.20: 8Remember the sabbath day, to keep it holy.

Where?

No, it’s you who are putting your spin on scripture.
Gen.2
Genesis 2
1Thus the heavens and the earth were finished, and all the host of them.

2And on the seventh day God ended his work which he had made; and he rested on the seventh day from all his work which he had made.

3And God blessed the seventh day, and sanctified it: because that in it he had rested from all his work which God created and made.

Ex.20
8Remember the sabbath day, to keep it holy.

9Six days shalt thou labour, and do all thy work:

10But the seventh day is the sabbath of the LORD thy God

The seventh day is the Sabbath. Sunday is the first day. It is impossible to keep the seventh day holy on the first day.

If the apostles kept the seventh-day Sabbath even one day after Shavuot, and after the later Council of Jerusalem in around 48 or 49 AD, or about 14 or 1`5 years after the crucifiction of Jesus, that means that the Apostles kept the seventh-day Sabbath, not to mention the Passover Seder and days of unleavened bread as Paul did at Phillipi and Corinth.

Jesus ratified the New Covenant, the one found in Exodus 34, with the statutes and judgments. Otherwise, His promises to Moses and the people of Israel would have meant nothing in terms of their salvation. There is a reason that Jesus told the woman at the well “Verily I say unto thee, woman, salvation is of the Jews.” If Jesus were creating a new religion, completely separate from the one He gave Moses at Sinai, then why would He tell this non-Jew at the well some 1,400 years after Moses and Sinai, that salvation is of (comes through) the Jews?

He indeed made all things new because His blood-sacrifice for sin (the transgression of the Law, by the way), is what made justification and sanctification even possible, for all people who lived before His crucifiction and afterward. Through the Holy Spirit we need no longer be afraid of the Law. God’s grace is extended to us because of Jesus’ sacrifice (our justification) and sanctificatiion (the patience of God as Christ works in our lives to change our hearts, and consequently, our behavior, keeping it in conformity with God’s Law. His Law is filled with the love of Jesus Christ, the One who gave it to Moses whom God asked to give to the people who would then spread it to all the nations of the then-known world.

As we all know, the Jews failed in truly keeping God’s Law because of self-rghteousness and consequently dispising of the peoples around Israel. They tried obeying God’s Law, but without God’s Holy Spirit. Jesus’ sacrifice of His own innocent blood to make propitiation for the sins of all who would accept His sacrifice, would be justifiably then part of the Abrahamic Covenant, which was formalized twice at Mt. Sinai, including the second time when the Laws of the first Covenant became part of the second Covenant, but with the addition that God would work within His people to change their hearts.

In sum, it is not a matter of not having to keep God’s Everlasting Covenant, thinking that all one has to do is go to church or synagogue, say what the Michna or Missal says to say, say prayers, and sing, and say “amen” when the sermon is over. It is a matter of accepting Jesus as Messiah, asking for help of His Holy Spirit in understanding what His Law is, why He gave it (how does keeping His Ten Commandments, His statutes and judgments and other civil ordinances, help us become Christ-like in behavior and attitudes.

If we keep His Law because we love God, Father, Son and Holy Spirit, then it may seem as though we are not actually reading a set of laws every day. They become part of our characters. But, the Sabbath attention to what our goal is (salvation, the heavenly Kingdom, and how when we study the elements of the plan of salvation and Jesus’ desire for us to be with Him, keeping His commandments because we love Him, including those we may yet have problems with, we can look forward with confidence in being in His Kingdom.

As Jesus told Pilate, “My kingdom is not of this world. Were it of this world, My followers would join armies and fight.”

Shalom alechem

Ron

 

[me_again]

Satan came up with the idea of eternal hell so people would be scared into serving God and also so that others would misunderstand the loving character of God.

An Adventist once said, “If God is someone who would create an eternal hell where people are eternally punished, then I want nothing to do with Him!!!”

When you get to heaven, do you really believe it will be possible to interact with those who, in this context, will be in hell?

Before Jesus ascended into heaven, Paradise or the place where the righteous were kept was in the bowels of the earth, adjacent to where the tormented were kept**;** both were completely separate from each other. This is aptly demonstrated in Jesus’ story (not parable) of Lazarus and the rich man.

After Jesus ascended into heaven, the location of the righteous was moved out of the bowels of the earth into heaven.

Jesus was teaching the Pharisees that the kingdom of heaven was not just for the Jews, but also for the Gentiles.

If the idea of consciousness after death is demonic, as you suggest, then Jesus would not have presented the concept in the bible**;** but Jesus did present His concept.

The SDA doctrines that you’re spouting are simply a vain attempt to disprove the message of the Lord Jesus Christ. :tsktsk:

 

[me_again]

Ms. SDA BibleTruth, exactly why aren’t Christians allowed to stone violators of the Jewish Saturday sabbath?
BibleTruth;6812839:

They’d probably be charged for aggravated assault, manslaughter or murder, depending on the outcome of the stoning.

Ms. SDA BibleTruth, you freely acknowledge that there is no biblical penalty for not keeping the Jewish Saturday sabbath in the New Covenant.

Having said that…

There is a SDA theology of mandatory Saturday sabbath worship – and anyone who doesn’t abide by this SDA decree receives the SDA mark of the beast.

 

[SteveVH]

In your understanding, what/who is the fourth kingdom of Daniel 7?

The four kingdoms are referring to the Babylonian, Median, Persian and Greek Kingdoms. The same imagery is used in Revelation but is applied to the Roman Empire which persecutes the Church.

Daniel 7:25 is most likely a reference to to the persecutions of Antiochus IV against the Jews in his attempt to “Hellenize” them (if that’s a word). Here are some numbers for you: “a year, two years and a half-year”. This is a reference to an “evil” time period as it represents one-half of the perfect Jewish number, seven. In reality, it also corresponds very closely to the time periond of Antiochus’ persecution. Again, it is speaking of a past event.

 

[SteveVH]

Satan came up with the idea of eternal hell so people would be scared into serving God and also so that others would misunderstand the loving character of God. There’s no point in me saying how that lie got propagated into Christianity because I’ll be accused of spreading hate. I’ll just suggest to you that you check history on this one so you can see it for yourself.

Are you asking us to believe that Satan would want to use some tactic so that people would be “scared into serving God”? How would scaring people into serving God serve Satan? I think his objective is to spread lies so that people will not serve God. Your logic is completley flawed.

 

[me_again]

Satan came up with the idea of eternal hell so people would be scared into serving God and also so that others would misunderstand the loving character of God. There’s no point in me saying how that lie got propagated into Christianity because I’ll be accused of spreading hate. I’ll just suggest to you that you check history on this one so you can see it for yourself.
SteveVH;6812999:

Are you asking us to believe that Satan would want to use some tactic so that people would be “scared into serving God”

? How would scaring people into serving God serve Satan? I think his objective is to spread lies so that people will not serve God. Your logic is completley flawed.

At last!!! A little bit of lucidity and common sense around here!!! Bravo!!! :clapping:

These crazy SDA doctrines are unbelievable because so many SDAs are ensnared and hoodwinked by these doctrines of demons. Sad Sad Sad. Equally remarkable is that SDAs are incredibly aggressive in spreading their demonic doctrines, as is evidenced by the fact that they visit a Catholic forum to perniciously spread their SDA heresies!!! :dts:

 

[SteveVH]

At last!!! A little bit of lucidity and common sense around here!!! Bravo!!! :clapping:

These crazy SDA doctrines are unbelievable because so many SDAs are ensnared and hoodwinked by these doctrines of demons. Sad Sad Sad. Equally remarkable is that SDAs are incredibly aggressive in spreading their demonic doctrines, as is evidenced by the fact that they visit a Catholic forum to perniciously spread their SDA heresies!!! :dts:

You know, it makes me wonder if it is even productive to enter into converstaions with these folks. The only reason I even return to this thread is because I can’t stand by while they trash our Church. This is a great place to test the amount of charity one posesses. So far I’ve failed miserably but I’ll keep trying.

 

[RonTheNewJew]

The above post is true and in addition to it…

The SDAs and JWs must twist and turn round scriptures to fit into their demonically inspired square SDA holes. For example, the Lord Jesus Christ declared that men have consciousness after death, but SDAs have come on this board and said that that’s what the devil declared. The bible says that Jesus said it, but the SDAs say that the devil said it. Exactly who is the spiritual leader of Adventism? The answer is abundantly clear.

Jesus said that we have immediate consciousness after the death of our mortal bodies, but SDAs quote Old Testament verses in Ecclesiastes and Psalms as proof that Jesus was wrong. This is heresy!!!

And it all came from SDA Ellen Gould White who proclaimed that some black American slaves will never be resurrected and that she saw Enoch on a planet with four moons and that some of her followers would be translated instead of experiencing a mortal death and… and… and this is all unbelievable!!!

Adventism is filled with doctrines of demons. Unbelievable!!!

Beware of Seventh-day Adventism!!! :tsktsk:

Many Christian denominations, Adventists and perhaps Jehovah’s Witnesses, not to mention Baptists, who are a large part of that 1.8 billion baptized members, less than one in three in the world. That includes almost 900 million protestants whose numbers have grown exponentially by comparison with the RCC, whose numbers have staid at anywhere from 900 million to 1 billion, including baptized infants, for quite some time now.

The largest monotheistic religion under one name is Islam, not the RCC. Islam has now almost 1.5 billion on earth. The issue about numbers has nothing at all to do with truth.

In terms of why many protestants disagree vehemently with the RCC on doctrine is because, as is the case with most Messianic Jews, we accept only those versions which are based on what is known among most religious historians as the “textus receptus.” The RCC and to some degree Lutherans, and one or two smaller protestant denominations, accept the texts which were edited by Origen at Alexandria, Egypt.
Big difference because Origen believed that Christianity should largely be based on Greek Helenistic philosophy, which is where actual “presence” and the magic of a priest becoming Jesus Christ in the Mass comes from, along with the transfer of the solemnity of the Shabbat from the seventh day to the first day of the week, and te willingness to adopt pagan days, but then call them Christian all comes from.

That this was done under the pressure of the persecution of what were seventh-day Sabbath keepers at Rome for a couple of hundred years after Christ’s crucifiction is true, without any doubt. It is also true that the churches of the Eastern Patriarchate kept the seventh-day Sabbath, plus Passover, Pentecost (Feast of Weeks/Shavuot), and all of the other of the original, God-given, Moses-written annual holy convocations for the same period of time after Christ’s crucifiction. Thus, because the eastern churches were started by John, the Revelator and his immediate followers, proves that the religious calendar, minus the animal sacrifices, continue now.

The above is really the reason why, regardless of whether one is SDA, RCC, Baptist, Methodist, Eastern Orthodox, Lutheran, or Islamic, or a follower of Judaism, including people like me who follow the lunar religious calendar and believe in Jesus, we all need to just state our beliefs and stop consigning each other to the center of all melt-downs

As someone said, “shrug it off.”

Where

 

[SteveVH]

Many Christian denominations, Adventists and perhaps Jehovah’s Witnesses, not to mention Baptists, who are a large part of that 1.8 billion baptized members, less than one in three in the world. That includes almost 900 million protestants whose numbers have grown exponentially by comparison with the RCC, whose numbers have staid at anywhere from 900 million to 1 billion, including baptized infants, for quite some time now.

Not sure where you got your numbers here but you had better check them. The Catholic Church (Latin and Eastern) comprise around 1.3 billion members with the RCC being by far the largest. The Protestant churches don’t even come close. And, by the way, the RCC continues to expand every year.

Big difference because Origen believed that Christianity should largely be based on Greek Helenistic philosophy, which is where actual “presence” and the magic of a priest becoming Jesus Christ in the Mass comes from (emphasis mine), along with the transfer of the solemnity of the Shabbat from the seventh day to the first day of the week, and te willingness to adopt pagan days, but then call them Christian all comes from.

With all due respect, please refrain from stating things about the Catholic Church which are untrue and which it does not profess. The doctrine of “persona Christi” does not imply or state that this is “magic” and it is greatly offensive to Catholics. Thank you.

That this was done under the pressure of the persecution of what were seventh-day Sabbath keepers at Rome for a couple of hundred years after Christ’s crucifiction is true, without any doubt. ((emphasis mine)

Please do make statements like this without providing a credible source.

It is also true that the churches of the Eastern Patriarchate kept the seventh-day Sabbath, plus Passover, Pentecost (Feast of Weeks/Shavuot), and all of the other of the original, God-given, Moses-written annual holy convocations for the same period of time after Christ’s crucifiction. Thus, because the eastern churches were started by John, the Revelator and his immediate followers, proves that the religious calendar, minus the animal sacrifices, continue now.

I’m not sure I actually understand what you are trying to say here, but since there was only one Church for the first 1000 years or so, you would have to say the same thing about the Catholic Church, which just isn’t true. You seem to make a lot of statements without much to back them up.

The above is really the reason why, regardless of whether one is SDA, RCC, Baptist, Methodist, Eastern Orthodox, Lutheran, or Islamic, or a follower of Judaism, including people like me who follow the lunar religious calendar and believe in Jesus, we all need to just state our beliefs and stop consigning each other to the center of all melt-downs

As someone said, “shrug it off.”

Then I will ask you to listen to what Catholics believe and not insert your own definitions of what we believe in order to make your point.

 

[CatholicLover]

TO ALL:

Please read and understand the following:

The injunction to worship on Sunday is given in Scripture. That should settle once and for all the question of the Sabbath. We, who hold the Sabbath on Sunday and not Saturday are not in violation of the commandment, regardless what the SDA Church and its “theologians” say. The SDA is putting its own interpretation on scripture and refusing to recognize the sacrifice and teaching of Jesus and the Apostles.

PAX DOMINI

Shalom Aleichem

Nowhere in scripture are we told to keep Sunday Holy or that the 7th day Sabbath was changed to the 1st day.

I’ve had this discussion with a Priest who is a friend of mine before; the Catholic position on the issue of the Sabbath seems to depend upon the belief that the Catholic Church has the authority to change the Sabbath from Saturday to Sunday and the infallibility of the Catholic Church. This topic will never be settled as an argument between an Adventist and a Catholic unless either the Adventists agrees that the CC has that authority or the Catholic agrees that it doesn’t, two things that are unlikely to happen.

I have a question though, does the CC believe that keeping the 7th day Sabbath is a sin?

 

[SnakeMauler]

Seventh Day Adventists are these people who send you this little book in the mail, carefully disguised and I can’t at all remember it’s name. It doesn’t really mention that its by them and it took me a while to figure it out.

The thing that Seventh Day Adventists, Mormons, and Jehovah Witnesses have in common is that they all started in the 1800’s and encompass obscure practices and beliefs supported by maybe one or two bible verses. An example would be the Jehovah Witness harsh stance against “blood transfusions” (WTF? And this is based off prohibitions against EATING blood in Leveticus and whatnoot), the Mormon belief of God being some kind of “enlightened being” {???), and Seventh Day Adventists believing there is some sort of significance to Christians practicing on Saturdays again:shrug:

The thing about Seventh Day Adventists, is their very name is scary. They sound like a cult in an RPG video game.

-Snakemauler

 

[Javl]

TO ALL NON-SDA:

I’ve tried to carry on a meaningful dialogue with the SDA under the rules of the forum, and that is to exchange information. The SDA though do not believe in this. I find each and every one of these SDA are not interested in exchange but to get you to believe in their weird interpretation of scripture. They are very subtle and sneaky in their actions and can be quite insulting. The SDA are more interested in converting the unwary to their way of thinking and belief than carrying on a meaningful dialog. If you don’t accept their way you are guilty of a serious sin and are marked with the sign of the beast and will not attain heaven.

These SDA are truly brainwashed like all members of any cult. You cannot reason with them. They are “correct” and they alone “have the truth”. I don’t think they know what the truth is. I find I make greater headway with a Mormon or other cultic. Because an SDA believes in the basic tenets of Christianity ( the Holy Trinity, the death and reurrection, etc. ) does not mean that they are true Christians. They show no Christian charity in their communications. I find that they are prone to spreading mis-truths about all except the SDA. After all this I will do what Jesus said to do, that is to shake their dust off my feet and go on my way. I suggest all others do the same.

PAX DOMINI :signof cross:

Shalom Aleichem

 

[Rexpi]

Yes, of course.

The apostles told us not to use the Lord’s name in vain (blasphemy) because it’s part of the “moral” command**:*** Col. 3:8
biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Colossians+3:8&version=KJV
.

• Mark 7:21-23
  biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Mark+7:21-23&version=KJV
  .
• Matt. 5:37
  biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Matthew+5:37&version=KJV

You were going to write that nowhere in the New Testament did the apostles tell us not to use the Lord’s name in vain**;** and then you were going to say that similarly, since the apostles also didn’t tell us in the New Testament that we have to keep the Jewish Saturday sabbath, we must similarly keep it. However, as you can see, the apostles did tell us not to use the Lord’s name in vain**;** but the apostles did not tell us to keep the Saturday Jewish sabbath.

Next argument. :dts:

Its clear that in the Bible blasphemy is understanded as to ‘forgiving sins being a simple man’ so ‘acting as God when you are not’. Which by the way its exactly what the pope and priests do, being just simple men like you and me.

Please read for instance:

Mark 14:53-64
Luke 5:18-21

 

[Rexpi]

TO ALL NON-SDA:

I’ve tried to carry on a meaningful dialogue with the SDA under the rules of the forum, and that is to exchange information. The SDA though do not believe in this. I find each and every one of these SDA are not interested in exchange but to get you to believe in their weird interpretation of scripture. They are very subtle and sneaky in their actions and can be quite insulting. The SDA are more interested in converting the unwary to their way of thinking and belief than carrying on a meaningful dialog. If you don’t accept their way you are guilty of a serious sin and are marked with the sign of the beast and will not attain heaven.

These SDA are truly brainwashed like all members of any cult. You cannot reason with them. They are “correct” and they alone “have the truth”. I don’t think they know what the truth is. I find I make greater headway with a Mormon or other cultic. Because an SDA believes in the basic tenets of Christianity ( the Holy Trinity, the death and reurrection, etc. ) does not mean that they are true Christians. They show no Christian charity in their communications. I find that they are prone to spreading mis-truths about all except the SDA. After all this I will do what Jesus said to do, that is to shake their dust off my feet and go on my way. I suggest all others do the same.

PAX DOMINI :signof cross:

Shalom Aleichem

You are free to go your way… I also can say the very same thing of many catholics is this forum, not all… but many, insult other people by saying that other are not even Christians, followers or demons… come on. The only thing I do in this ‘Info on SDA’ forum is to see what things are being tell about us and of course correct people when its needed. We teach the Bible and the Bible is clear when you study it deep [previous praying for guidence] and with a humble heart ready to accept any truth within it and ready to change anything in our lives in order to obey God and improve our relationship with our Creator.

Good luck in your walking with God.

 

[Rexpi]

Seventh Day Adventists are these people who send you this little book in the mail, carefully disguised and I can’t at all remember it’s name. It doesn’t really mention that its by them and it took me a while to figure it out.

The thing that Seventh Day Adventists, Mormons, and Jehovah Witnesses have in common is that they all started in the 1800’s and encompass obscure practices and beliefs supported by maybe one or two bible verses. An example would be the Jehovah Witness harsh stance against “blood transfusions” (WTF? And this is based off prohibitions against EATING blood in Leveticus and whatnoot), the Mormon belief of God being some kind of “enlightened being” {???), and Seventh Day Adventists believing there is some sort of significance to Christians practicing on Saturdays again:shrug:

The thing about Seventh Day Adventists, is their very name is scary. They sound like a cult in an RPG video game.

-Snakemauler

We can tell the ‘christian’ you are just by reading your beautiful language… scary to me is seeing all this people kneeling down in front of cold images, golden statues, etc asking them forgiveness and help in their lives… thats actually sad.

 

[Rexpi]

Are you asking us to believe that Satan would want to use some tactic so that people would be “scared into serving God”? How would scaring people into serving God serve Satan? I think his objective is to spread lies so that people will not serve God. Your logic is completley flawed.

I’ll say what Bible truth didnt say before… Scaring people… Obviously Catholic Church taking good advantage by selling indulgences. Do they still selling them? No kidding, can someone explain that? Ta

 

[greggy53]

I’ll say what Bible truth didnt say before… Scaring people… Obviously Catholic Church taking good advantage by selling indulgences. Do they still selling them? No kidding, can someone explain that? Ta

The Catholic Church still offers indulgences, but hasn’t sold them for about 400 years…How long have the SDA been around 150 years tops?..Soul sleep is a rather silly notion. To sleep would indicate a passage of time and when we die time ceases to exist. Heaven and Hell exist outside of time so the idea of waiting for judgement doesn’t make sense.

 

[Protestant101]

Jesus didn’t eliminate the law he fulfilled the law.

Oh, really? Jesus does not need “fulfilling.” He is just fine the way He is! Always was, always will be!