Info on SDA

[greggy53]

Greggy,
Thanks for your reply.
I think that, on the sites of several Protestant church denominations I have read some very terse things, not only about Catholics, but also, and unfairly so, about Seventh-day Adventists, not to mention as has gone on for most of 2,000, not online of course, the Jews. Up to the mid-1950’ we were actively blamed for “killing Christ.”

It seems to me that that, when groups of good people are constantly being verbally, and in print, attacked by others, they become defensive, then decide that the best defense against the attacks is to attack the attackers. It’s a tit-for-tat thing.

I have seen it both ways on this forum. I’m sure that they feel as positive about their beliefs as you do about Catholic beliefs. The recent Sunday closing law in Germany, which gives Sunday-observing Christians a six-day week within which to sell from stores and shops, etc., only allows faithful Jews and SDAs five days for the same purposes. As a Jew, this is patently unfair. Fairness is requisite, as far as I understand it, within the beliefs as taught by Jesus Christ.

It seems to me a better way to handle that situation is to legislate that those with religious beliefs that require Saturday off, be allowed to keep their stores open on Sunday.
There are not all that many Jews and SDAs in Germany. But in Judeo-Christianity at least, fairness is required. God said in the Law, “thou shalt not oppress one another. I am the Lord.”

Peace be to you my brother in Yeshua (Jesus)

I believe an even better solution is to allow private business the freedom to open or close on any day of the week they choose. That is the way it is in the states. Years ago when Christian infulence was much greater here most businesses closed on Sunday, but as far as I know it was never the law except of course for the laws that banned liqour sales on Sunday.

 

[Protestant101]

The leader and founder of Adventism, Ellen Gould White, falsely prophesied

She was not the leader or the founder of The Seventh-day Adventist Church.

 

[Protestant101]

The Seventh-day Adventists also believe that the United States is “mystery Babylon” in the bible**;**

No; this is not what we believe.

 

[me_again]

The Seventh-day Adventists also believe that the United States is “mystery Babylon” in the bible.
Protestant101;6815765:

No; this is not what we believe.

Would you please be so kind as to set the record straight? Exactly what do SDAs believe is the role of the United States in bible prophecy? :ehh:

Pray tell? :thankyou:

 

[me_again]

I stand corrected. The SDAs believe that the United States is the “beast with lamb like horns” in Revelation 13. Here’s a cut-and-paste from one of their prophecy websites:

"The prophecy of Revelation 13 declares that the power represented by the beast with lamblike horns shall cause the earth and them which dwell therein to worship the papacy --there symbolized by the beast…"

Source:
[america(name removed by moderator)rophecy.com/americainbibleprophecy/libertyofconsciencethreatened.asp](http://www.america(name removed by moderator)rophecy.com/americainbibleprophecy/libertyofconsciencethreatened.asp)
(about the 48th paragraph down)

So in SDA theology, the United States will cause all people on earth to worship the papacy? lolololololol okay whatever.

Knowledge is POWER.

 

[KathleenGee]

That is the lie about Catholics worshipping the papacy…

The reason I came on SDA sites was the experience of my friends joining, their mother attending their church service, the minister denouncing our faith, and then insulting the mother as she walked out.

My friends did more research on the foundation of this cult, and I say cult because now I know they do indeed spread lies about how we believe. Once they spent time studying its foundation, they left.

My state has had large billboards up next to the interstate with the photo of John Paul II displayed as the AntiChrist.

It takes two to tango…people who spread this stuff and those who want to believe it. Life is too short…

 

[CatholicLover]

The Seventh-day Adventists also believe that the United States is “mystery Babylon” in the bible**;** and the SDAs believe that the U.S. will force everyone on earth to worship on Sundays. If you don’t find this to be strange, then something is wrong.

As a result of the above bizarre SDA theology and before the fall of the Soviet Union, the Russians loved the Adventists and welcomed them with open arms because many SDAs were against the U.S.

Aaround the 1950s, SDAs and JWs regularly refused to serve in the Armed Forces of the U.S., due to their strange SDA biblical interpretation that the U.S. is mystery Babylon. There were many SDA conscientious objectors.

The deeper you dig into Adventism, the stranger it gets.

Knowledge is POWER.

Sweeping statements like these with no basis demonstrate a lack of familiarity with the truth about Adventism.

The Russians loved Adventists before the fall of the Soviet Union? Really?

SDA’s regularly refused to serve in the Armed Forces? What’s your source? I was formerly in the Army as were many of my Adventist friends. Many Christians, not just Adventists choose to be conscientious objectors. Noone I know did.

The thread is called “Info on SDA” in the “Non-Catholic Religions” forum. One would think you’d be interested in truthful information regarding Adventists. Baseless accusations seem to be the norm in your posts. Can’t we discuss our differences without belittling each other?

Accusations just make people defensive and argumentative, rational discussion makes people think.

 

[Protestant101]

That is the lie about Catholics worshipping the papacy…

The reason I came on SDA sites was the experience of my friends joining, their mother attending their church service, the minister denouncing our faith, and then insulting the mother as she walked out.

Well; you know what? This thread is called “Info On SDA.” Based on this, I would like to add some focus on a little acknowledged aspect of Adventist Christians. Some of us really do value any and all opportunities to fellowship and be at peace with our Catholic brothers and sisters in Christ. I believe that this is ALWAYS POSSIBLE no matter who believes what.

Tonight, I am going to pray for my Catholic friends here at CA. I am not going to argue about this or anything else tonight. I will just pray. I am inviting you all to join me, as the more negative or aggressive aspects of our respective beliefs should not be allowed to get in the way of our common needs and goals. We all need prayer. And like it or not, we all need each other. You can think the worst about my Church if you want to; but I am going to continue trying to think the best of your Church. If you & others find this kind of subject (prophecy) so offensive, then it is something that I will personally continue to stay away from on this forum. And I think that for the most part, I have been consistent in this for going on 5 years here at CA.

I really do think of you all as brothers and sisters in Christ. There’s not much you can do to change that. You guys even pray for me when I ask; how can I think of you otherwise?

 

[CatholicLover]

That is the lie about Catholics worshipping the papacy…

The reason I came on SDA sites was the experience of my friends joining, their mother attending their church service, the minister denouncing our faith, and then insulting the mother as she walked out.

My friends did more research on the foundation of this cult, and I say cult because now I know they do indeed spread lies about how we believe. Once they spent time studying its foundation, they left.

My state has had large billboards up next to the interstate with the photo of John Paul II displayed as the AntiChrist.

It takes two to tango…people who spread this stuff and those who want to believe it. Life is too short…

I’m sorry that was your friend’s experience with the Adventist Church. I think it shows poor judgement on that pastor’s part to deliver a sermon that could be seen as insulting to the people he’s hoping to influence.

I’ve been enjoying reading these forums and learning a bit about the Catholic Church. There is alot of history to learn and I find it interesting on both an intellectual and spiritual level. My hope is that you will take the time to read our 28 fundamental beliefs, this is the core of who we are. Even if you don’t agree with them, if you understand these beliefs you will understand Adventism. adventist.org/beliefs/fundamental/index.html

 

[RonTheNewJew]

I believe an even better solution is to allow private business the freedom to open or close on any day of the week they choose. That is the way it is in the states. Years ago when Christian infulence was much greater here most businesses closed on Sunday, but as far as I know it was never the law except of course for the laws that banned liqour sales on Sunday.

Hey Greggy,
I’m with you 125% on total freedom of conscience in matters of religion and when one can do business. It is better for the freedom to become, as they say in the military, “all that you can be.” Your religious day(s) are your own business. But, I know that with what Lutheran, and Catholic church leaders did when they sought to influence legislation in Germany, that many Jews and, I presume SDA’s as well, became deeply disturbed about the store and shop closing legislation that passed in Germany.

Is there some way that you, or perhaps others, can find out the extent or degree to which that law extends? I mean, is it just for the sale of certain items or does it cover all items that are sold in Germany? It seems to me that the European economy, which is in some rather dire straights right now, might be helped in the “day of rest and family renewal,” or whatever they call it was left, as you and I believe in, up to the individual.

If such church pressure, now recognizing the unfairness to Jews and SDAs, and perhaps others as well as an apparently negative impact on the German economy, could result in at least Jews and SDAs and others having their shops open on Sunday might well begin to reverse the downward economic spiral now being reported in the news, in Europe.

Peace to you in Jesus, the Messiah

 

[Farsight001]

I’m sorry that was your friend’s experience with the Adventist Church. I think it shows poor judgement on that pastor’s part to deliver a sermon that could be seen as insulting to the people he’s hoping to influence.

I think (s)he meant that the sermon was anti-Catholic and that she was then personally insulted as she was leaving, not just that the sermon itself was insulting.

But what I really want to say is that I hear about pastors doing that pretty much every day. It’s not just a Seventh Day Adventist thing though. It seems to happen in a lot of denominations that hold that there is something amiss with Catholicism. It’s a pattern. Person invites their Catholic friend to church, tells pastor what they’re doing in the hopes of getting a relevant sermon to help “save” their friend. Then the pastor lays it on a bit too strong and crosses the line into insulting. Most pastors in this situation, however, don’t seem to be able to fathom that a line even exists to cross in the first place.

 

[Rexpi]

Doesn’t your SDA sect do the exact same thing when you say that if a followers gives money to your church, then they are indulged by God because He’ll give money back to them? Pot calling kettle!

The 7th day Adventist church does not teach that lie at all, I don’t know where you get your information from but it’s totally incorrect. On the other hand the catholic sect does teach about indulgences.

 

[me_again]

Sweeping statements like these with no basis demonstrate a lack of familiarity with the truth about Adventism.

The Russians loved Adventists before the fall of the Soviet Union? Really?

SDA’s regularly refused to serve in the Armed Forces? What’s your source? I was formerly in the Army as were many of my Adventist friends. Many Christians, not just Adventists choose to be conscientious objectors. Noone I know did.

The thread is called “Info on SDA” in the “Non-Catholic Religions” forum. One would think you’d be interested in truthful information regarding Adventists. Baseless accusations seem to be the norm in your posts. Can’t we discuss our differences without belittling each other?

Accusations just make people defensive and argumentative, rational discussion makes people think.

Regarding one (1) of your points, I corrected myself in post #477. A source is also provided.

The goal in pointing out these facts is not to hurt the feelings of people who have been hoodwinked and misled by SDA doctrines**;** the goal is to set people free with the truth.

 

[me_again]

The 7th day Adventist church does not teach that lie at all, I don’t know where you get your information from but it’s totally incorrect. On the other hand the catholic sect does teach about indulgences.

Rexpi,

Please share with us if the following four Adventist doctrines are truths, lies or misunderstandings**:**

• The Catholic Church is the “whore” of Babylon.
  .
• The United States is the lamb-like beast with two horns in Revelation 13 and will cause all people on the earth to worship the papacy.
  Source:
  [america(name removed by moderator)rophecy.com/americainbibleprophecy/libertyofconsciencethreatened.asp](http://www.america(name removed by moderator)rophecy.com/americainbibleprophecy/libertyofconsciencethreatened.asp)
  (about the 48th paragraph down)
  .
• Ellen White prophesied to some of her followers that they would be translated and would not see mortal death. Her prophecy failed and they are all dead now, including White.
  .
• Adventism requires manditory worship on the Jewish Saturday sabbath – and anyone who refuses receives the SDA mark of the beast.

Sources for each of these SDA doctrines have been posted in this thread.

 

[CatholicLover]

I think (s)he meant that the sermon was anti-Catholic and that she was then personally insulted as she was leaving, not just that the sermon itself was insulting.

But what I really want to say is that I hear about pastors doing that pretty much every day. It’s not just a Seventh Day Adventist thing though. It seems to happen in a lot of denominations that hold that there is something amiss with Catholicism. It’s a pattern. Person invites their Catholic friend to church, tells pastor what they’re doing in the hopes of getting a relevant sermon to help “save” their friend. Then the pastor lays it on a bit too strong and crosses the line into insulting. Most pastors in this situation, however, don’t seem to be able to fathom that a line even exists to cross in the first place.

I’m not saying there aren’t Adventist churches that do this because there may be but every Adventist church I’ve been a member of goes out of it’s way to accept visitors in a non-judgemental way. In fact I don’t remember ever hearing a sermon on Adventist belief regarding the prophecies of Daniel and Revelation. If those topics are discussed it’s usually in Bible studies or evangelistic meetings.

 

[CatholicLover]

Rexpi,

Please share with us if the following four Adventist doctrines are truths, lies or misunderstandings**:**

• The Catholic Church is the “whore” of Babylon.
  .
• The United States is the lamb-like beast with two horns in Revelation 13 and will cause all people on the earth to worship the papacy.
  Source:
  [america(name removed by moderator)rophecy.com/americainbibleprophecy/libertyofconsciencethreatened.asp](http://www.america(name removed by moderator)rophecy.com/americainbibleprophecy/libertyofconsciencethreatened.asp)
  (about the 48th paragraph down)
  .
• Ellen White prophesied to some of her followers that they would be translated and would not see mortal death. Her prophecy failed and they are all dead now, including White.
  .
• Adventism requires manditory worship on the Jewish Saturday sabbath – and anyone who refuses receives the SDA mark of the beast.

Sources for each of these SDA doctrines have been posted in this thread.

I hope you don’t mind if I jump in here.

I’m reluctant to discuss Adventist belief regarding the fulfillment of the prophesies of Daniel and Revelation here because this is afterall a Catholic forum. Those beliefs are better studied as a whole instead in pieces. When you look at them as a whole, with an open mind and in historical context they make sense.

Ellen White did make that prophecy but she also states that God’s prophecies are sometimes conditional:
"The angels of God in their messages to men represent time as very short. Thus it has always been presented to me. It is true that time has continued longer than we expected in the early days of this message. Our Saviour did not appear as soon as we hoped. But has the Word of the Lord failed? Never! It should be remembered that the promises and the threatenings of God are alike conditional. . . .

"It was not the will of God that the coming of Christ should be thus delayed. God did not design that His people, Israel, should wander forty years in the wilderness. He promised to lead them directly to the land of Canaan, and establish them there a holy, healthy, people. But those to whom it was first preached, went not in ‘because of unbelief.’ Their hearts were filled with murmuring, rebellion, and hatred, and He could not fulfill His covenant with them.

“For forty years did unbelief, murmuring, and rebellion shut out ancient Israel from the land of Canaan. The same sins have delayed the entrance of modern Israel into the heavenly Canaan. In neither case were the promises of God at fault. It is the unbelief, the worldliness, unconsecration, and strife among the Lord’s professed people that have kept us in this world of sin and sorrow so many years” (Ms 4, 1883, quoted in Evangelism, pp. 695, 696).

For your 3rd point; The Adventist Church does not ‘require’ anything. Seventh Day Adventists worship on Sabbath, we believe the Sabbath has never been changed by God and we keep it Holy. We don’t condemn people who don’t worship on the Sabbath and there is no “SDA mark of the Beast”. In fact, Adventists believe there will be people from other denominations that do not worship on the Sabbath in Heaven.

 

[RonTheNewJew]

I hope you don’t mind if I jump in here.

I’m reluctant to discuss Adventist belief regarding the fulfillment of the prophesies of Daniel and Revelation here because this is afterall a Catholic forum. Those beliefs are better studied as a whole instead in pieces. When you look at them as a whole, with an open mind and in historical context they make sense.

Ellen White did make that prophecy but she also states that God’s prophecies are sometimes conditional:
"The angels of God in their messages to men represent time as very short. Thus it has always been presented to me. It is true that time has continued longer than we expected in the early days of this message. Our Saviour did not appear as soon as we hoped. But has the Word of the Lord failed? Never! It should be remembered that the promises and the threatenings of God are alike conditional. . . .

"It was not the will of God that the coming of Christ should be thus delayed. God did not design that His people, Israel, should wander forty years in the wilderness. He promised to lead them directly to the land of Canaan, and establish them there a holy, healthy, people. But those to whom it was first preached, went not in ‘because of unbelief.’ Their hearts were filled with murmuring, rebellion, and hatred, and He could not fulfill His covenant with them.

“For forty years did unbelief, murmuring, and rebellion shut out ancient Israel from the land of Canaan. The same sins have delayed the entrance of modern Israel into the heavenly Canaan. In neither case were the promises of God at fault. It is the unbelief, the worldliness, unconsecration, and strife among the Lord’s professed people that have kept us in this world of sin and sorrow so many years” (Ms 4, 1883, quoted in Evangelism, pp. 695, 696).

For your 3rd point; The Adventist Church does not ‘require’ anything. Seventh Day Adventists worship on Sabbath, we believe the Sabbath has never been changed by God and we keep it Holy. We don’t condemn people who don’t worship on the Sabbath and there is no “SDA mark of the Beast”. In fact, Adventists believe there will be people from other denominations that do not worship on the Sabbath in Heaven.

At long last, it sounds like somone understands that the Jews did not create the Sabbath day, nor any other of the Ten Commandments. God spoke them, at first to Adam and
Eve after they sinned in the Garden of Eden. They included the Command to remember the Sabbath day to keep it holy. Six days shalt thou labor, but the seventh day is the Sabbath of the Lord thy God. In it thou shalt not do any work.Thou nor…"

God is not a human being. We humans, be we ethnic Jewish as I am, or German, or French or Catholic, Baptist, Seventh-day Adventist, Lutheran or whatever, are way to sinful to allow ourselves to argue so starkly as I have seen in this forum from both sides of what is an honest disagreement over the meaning of the book that is based on manuscripts that were first written by Jews.

PS. The word, Israel, only means “he who has struggled with God.” This means that we let God see into our selfishness of heart, and work to take away our desire to say, “I’m right and you are wrong.” Rather, it means that, since each person, or group of persons is right in his own eyes, that both of you are “right.” This is why God said in Torah that “You shall not oppress one another. I am the Lord your God.”

What selfishness is it that causes people to argue and fight over honest disagreements?

 

[Protestant101]

Regarding one (1) of your points, I corrected myself in post #477. A source is also provided.

The goal in pointing out these facts is not to hurt the feelings of people who have been hoodwinked and misled by SDA doctrines**;** the goal is to set people free with the truth.

I don’t feel like I have been “hoodwinked” - nor have my feelings been hurt. The dear old Adventist person who led me to Christ has always said: “God just loves everyone so much. It makes me cry to see people who do not believe that.”

I have always remembered this in the back of my mind as I studied prophecy and other denominations and their beliefs - and I think it’s how God prefers us al to look at each other.

 

[me_again]

I hope you don’t mind if I jump in here.

Sure, jump in!

I’m reluctant to discuss Adventist belief regarding the fulfillment of the prophesies of Daniel and Revelation here because this is afterall a Catholic forum. Those beliefs are better studied as a whole instead in pieces. When you look at them as a whole, with an open mind and in historical context they make sense.

The SDA theories are so disproportionally wrong that it’s mind boggling. But what’s even more mind boggling is that a very tiny amount of people actually belief that stuff.

I studied Ellen White and Adventism with an open mind (really!!!) and I fully appreciate that there are people who believe all that poppycock. I also studied Jim Jones with an open mind (really!!!) and, sadly, I also understand that there were people who believed in his theories too.

There are people of all nations, kindreds and tongues who will enter the kingdom of heaven – and this includes SDAs and JWs. While I belabor and ridicule the poppycock beliefs of the SDAs and JWs, I never insult individuals. For example, I get the impression that you love the Lord Jesus**;** but if you’ve fallen prey to the SDA doctrines of demons, it shows that something is spiritually wrong with the picture.

 

[me_again]

Ellen White prophesied to some of her followers that they would be translated and would not see mortal death. Her prophecy failed

and they are all dead now, including White.Ellen White did make that prophecy but she also states that God’s prophecies are sometimes conditional. [Ellen White wrote]:"The angels of God in their messages to men represent time as very short. Thus it has always been presented to me. It is true that time has continued longer than we expected in the early days of this message. Our Saviour did not appear as soon as we hoped. But has the Word of the Lord failed? Never! It should be remembered that the promises and the threatenings of God are alike conditional. . . .

"It was not the will of God that the coming of Christ should be thus delayed. God did not design that His people, Israel, should wander forty years in the wilderness. He promised to lead them directly to the land of Canaan, and establish them there a holy, healthy, people. But those to whom it was first preached, went not in ‘because of unbelief.’ Their hearts were filled with murmuring, rebellion, and hatred, and He could not fulfill His covenant with them.

“For forty years did unbelief, murmuring, and rebellion shut out ancient Israel from the land of Canaan. The same sins have delayed the entrance of modern Israel into the heavenly Canaan. In neither case were the promises of God at fault. It is the unbelief, the worldliness, unconsecration, and strife among the Lord’s professed people that have kept us in this world of sin and sorrow so many years” (Ms 4, 1883, quoted in Evangelism, pp. 695, 696).

Mr. CatholicLover,

1. You acknowledge that Ellen White made the prophecy and that it did not come to pass.
2. You still believe that Ellen White’s prophecy is from the Lord Jesus Christ, even though the prophecy failed to come to pass.
3. Instead of admitting that Ellen White made a false prophecy, you used more of Ellen White’s writings to justify her false prophecy.

There is something that is gravely and spiritually wrong with this analysis.