M
me_again
Guest
Mr. CatholicLover, specifically, are you saying that**:**
- If a person chooses (with his frontlets)
- to attend church on Sunday (the right hand - action)
- that he has not received the mark of the beast in SDA theology?
- Status
P
Protestant101
Guest
Well; yes, this is true. I can see that you try hard not to “insult individuals.” Some of us Adventists have tried the same type of reasoning to try to explain that we are attacking a belief system, and not people, and we have had some (shall I call it bitter remarks) hurled at us. It’s too bad that there is such discordant relations in so many cases. Catholics and Protestants could get along a lot better if they really wanted to - (I think).
I recall during my nursing days when I was in training; a dear old Catholic Nun was my clinical instructor during a term I did some practicum at a local Catholic hospital. On my last day there; I went to see her in her office, and I just said: “You have been a great inspiration to me; and I will try to treat every patient the way I see you treat them. It’s like every time you are with a patient; Jesus is there. Every time.” And at this, she burst into tears, realizing how ever-present the Savior was in her ministry at this hospital. I then asked her if I could pray with her as we parted ways, and through the tears, we both managed to squeak out a few words to God.
Adventists have taught me to look for Jesus, like this, in not only Catholics, but all other faith backgrounds too. It’s amazing what can happen when we all have the attitude that “we would see Jesus.” (John 12:21)
If He is there, we will always see Him:
Always There
There is no night, however dark
That never ends in dawn
There is no snow, however white
That stays when winters gone.
There is no barrier too high
To intercept my prayer
And there is no place I’ll be alone
For God is always there.
- Florence French
C
CatholicLover
Guest
I keep hearing you say that Ellen White is wrong, but what specifically do you believe she is wrong about? If she is so wrong it should be easy to identify.Sure, jump in!
The SDA theories are so disproportionally wrong that it’s mind boggling. But what’s even more mind boggling is that a very tiny amount of people actually belief that stuff.
I studied Ellen White and Adventism with an open mind (really!!!) and I fully appreciate that there are people who believe all that poppycock. I also studied Jim Jones with an open mind (really!!!) and, sadly, I also understand that there were people who believed in his theories too.
There are people of all nations, kindreds and tongues who will enter the kingdom of heaven – and this includes SDAs and JWs. While I belabor and ridicule the poppycock beliefs of the SDAs and JWs, I never insult individuals. For example, I get the impression that you love the Lord Jesus**;** but if you’ve fallen prey to the SDA doctrines of demons, it shows that something is spiritually wrong with the picture.
M
me_again
Guest
What you’ve written is very flowery and it aptly demonstrates that we can, indeed, work as a team**;** and that we can demonstrate the love of Jesus by our actions i.e. the world will know us by our fruits and by our love, one for another.Well; yes, this is true. I can see that you try hard not to “insult individuals.” Some of us Adventists have tried the same type of reasoning to try to explain that we are attacking a belief system, and not people, and we have had some (shall I call it bitter remarks) hurled at us. It’s too bad that there is such discordant relations in so many cases. Catholics and Protestants could get along a lot better if they really wanted to - (I think).
I recall during my nursing days when I was in training; a dear old Catholic Nun was my clinical instructor during a term I did some practicum at a local Catholic hospital. On my last day there; I went to see her in her office, and I just said: “You have been a great inspiration to me; and I will try to treat every patient the way I see you treat them. It’s like every time you are with a patient; Jesus is there. Every time.” And at this, she burst into tears, realizing how ever-present the Savior was in her ministry at this hospital. I then asked her if I could pray with her as we parted ways, and through the tears, we both managed to squeak out a few words to God.
Adventists have taught me to look for Jesus, like this, in not only Catholics, but all other faith backgrounds too. It’s amazing what can happen when we all have the attitude that “we would see Jesus.” (John 12:21)
If He is there, we will always see Him:
Always There
There is no night, however dark
That never ends in dawn
There is no snow, however white
That stays when winters gone.
There is no barrier too high
To intercept my prayer
And there is no place I’ll be alone
For God is always there.
Let us remember that God is always there when we are discussing our disagreements; and maybe it will help us to also share our blessings.
- Florence French
However…
The Lord Jesus Christ said that the gates of hell will not prevail against the Church that He began with the Apostle Peter. As Protestant churches and Christian sects continue to spring up with false doctrines, only one Church can prevail with sound doctrines – and in my preliminary analysis, that is Catholicism.
It’s fun to “get along” and share kindness, but doctrines of demons and heresies will never be incorporated into Catholicism. The heresies and false doctrines that are espoused by Adventism will never mesh with Catholicism – and the twain shall never meet.
Showing kindness? Yes!
Accepting doctrines of demons and heresies? No! :nope:
The frivolity and entertainment of many Protestant churches is fantastic. There are many smiling faces in these churches!!!
However, the main tenant of the service has been forgotten e.g. communion aka the Eucharist in the celebration of the mass – the reason to go to church has almost been forgotten in Protestantism i.e. communion has been put on the back burner and is only given about four times annually, usually quarterly**;** communion has been replaced with fantastic preaching that is titillating to the ears and fascinating to listen to. The most dynamic and charismatic preachers get the biggest audiences, even if the preaching diverges from what Jesus told us to do e.g. do this (break bread) until I return.Many Christians attend various Protestant denominations. Kudos to their faithfulness. Rome recognizes their faithfulness, even though they aren’t in full communion with the Catholic Church. However, it is the Catholic Church that is the harbinger of original and correct Christian doctrines, as is evidenced from the apostles onwards to their proteges and all the way into the 21st Century.
:knight2:
M
me_again
Guest
You mean after all that’s been posted in this thread, you’re really asking that? LOL
The leader and founder of Adventism, Ellen Gould White, falsely prophesied that some of her followers (at the meeting they were at) would not see mortal death but, instead, would be translated. They are all dead now, including Ellen White. Does this false promise/prophecy alarm you at all? :sad_yes:
The SDA disinformation campaign is very intriguing. For example, the Lord Jesus said that we have consciousness when our mortal bodies die, but the SDA disinformation campaign says that the Lord Jesus is wrong e.g. SDAs teach that we don’t have consciousness at death. Does this false doctrine of soul sleep alarm you at all? :doh2:
To be baptized into Adventism, one must accept the doctrine of soul sleep. If a baptismal candidate refuses to accept the SDA doctrine of soul sleep, then baptism is denied. When the apostles began baptizing people, they were baptized into Christ and not into the doctrine of soul sleep. Denying baptism into Christ makes the SDA a cult i.e. you can only be baptized into Adventism and their kooky doctrines, to include soul sleep!!! Does denying baptism into Christ alarm you at all? :imsorry:
M
me_again
Guest
More SDA stuff that’s wrong**:**
The Seventh-day Adventists also believe that the United States is the “beast with lamb like horns” in Revelation 13**;** and the SDAs believe that the U.S. will force everyone on earth to worship on Sundays. If you don’t find this to be strange, then something is wrong.
Here’s a cut-and-paste from one of their prophecy websites:
"The prophecy of Revelation 13 declares that the power represented by the beast with lamblike horns shall cause the earth and them which dwell therein to worship the papacy --there symbolized by the beast…"
Source:
[america(name removed by moderator)rophecy.com/americainbibleprophecy/libertyofconsciencethreatened.asp](http://www.america(name removed by moderator)rophecy.com/americainbibleprophecy/libertyofconsciencethreatened.asp)
(about the 48th paragraph down)
So in SDA theology, the United States will cause all people on earth to worship the papacy? lolololololol okay whatever.
As a result of the above bizarre SDA theology and before the fall of the Soviet Union, the Russians loved the Adventists and welcomed them with open arms because many SDAs were against the U.S.
Aaround the 1950s, SDAs and JWs regularly refused to serve in the Armed Forces of the U.S., due to their strange SDA biblical interpretation that the U.S. is mystery Babylon. There were many SDA conscientious objectors.
The deeper you dig into Adventism, the stranger it gets.
Knowledge is POWER.
M
me_again
Guest
Even more!!!
The following four Adventist doctrines are lies**:**
- The Catholic Church is the “whore” of Babylon.
. - The United States is the lamb-like beast with two horns in Revelation 13 and will cause all people on the earth to worship the papacy.
Source:
[america(name removed by moderator)rophecy.com/americainbibleprophecy/libertyofconsciencethreatened.asp](http://www.america(name removed by moderator)rophecy.com/americainbibleprophecy/libertyofconsciencethreatened.asp)
(about the 48th paragraph down)
. - Ellen White prophesied to some of her followers that they would be translated and would not see mortal death. Her prophecy failed and they are all dead now, including White.
. - Adventism requires manditory worship on the Jewish Saturday sabbath – and anyone who refuses receives the SDA mark of the beast.
P
Protestant101
Guest
I agree that you should not acept any doctrine which you think is not Biblical. Catholics and Adventists can have different beliefs; yet still choose to get along and show kindness towards one another. It’s not really “flowery” when we do this; it is essential; and it is a direct command of God to “love one another.”It’s fun to “get along” and share kindness, but doctrines of demons and heresies will never be incorporated into Catholicism. The heresies and false doctrines that are espoused by Adventism will never mesh with Catholicism – and the twain shall never meet.
Showing kindness? Yes!
Accepting doctrines of demons and heresies? No! :nope:
:knight2:
We say certain beliefs will lead one to accept “the mark of the beast” at some point in time; you say certain beliefs mean that we espouse “doctrines of demons;” and “heresies.” If we can settle ourselves down and still choose to not fight - is that not worth something? I know how important your Church’s Eucharist is to you; but you are mistaken when you say that communion is not important to Protestants. We do it differently; but the same Jesus is always there.
M
me_again
Guest
SDA Protestant101, specifically, are you saying that:
- If a person chooses (with his frontlets)
- to attend church on Sunday (the right hand - action)
- that he has received the mark of the beast?
P
Protestant101
Guest
I know you think you are proving something with statements like this; but is this really any better than accusing another Church of worshipping “doctrines of demons?” I don’t really have any trouble with you saying that; but I do hope that you can someday look at our beliefs re prophecy in their intended context, and see just where we actually sit on this fence. I am not ashamed of anything I believe - but then I don’t think some of what I believe is even important enough to bother with on this forum.
P
Protestant101
Guest
Many people who worship on Sunday will not receive “the mark of the beast.” Our teachings are very clear on that point. They are equally clear that many professing Adventists who “keep” the Sabbath, will receive the mark of the beast. It is possible for someone to receive the mark of the beast even right now, today. But it won’t have anything to do with the Sabbath! It has everything to do with not accepting God’s authority in our lives and in our heart. In their correct context, our beliefs about this are very clear, and Biblically sound.
M
me_again
Guest
In SDA theology, the Catholic Church is declared to be the whore of Babylon**:**. That is a doctrine of demons. There are many other demonic doctrines in Seventh-day Adventism. That’s just the tip of the SDA iceberg.
P
Protestant101
Guest
Every warning, reproof, and entreaty in the Word of God; or through His messengers, is a knock at the door of the heart. It is the Voice of Jesus asking for entrance. Jesus said: “Behold I stand at the door and knock.”
C
CatholicLover
Guest
Mr. CatholicLover,
There is something that is gravely and spiritually wrong with this analysis.
- You acknowledge that Ellen White made the prophecy and that it did not come to pass.
- You still believe that Ellen White’s prophecy is from the Lord Jesus Christ, even though the prophecy failed to come to pass.
- Instead of admitting that Ellen White made a false prophecy, you used more of Ellen White’s writings to justify her false prophecy.
- It did not need my acknowledgement, the record is there for all to see.
- Jeremiah among other books makes it clear that some of God’s prophecies are conditional:
"At one moment I may declare concerning a nation or a kingdom, that I will pluck up and break down and destroy it, but if that nation, concerning which I have spoken, turns from its evil, I will change my mind about the disaster that I intended to bring on it. And at another moment I may declare concerning a nation or a kingdom that I will build and plant it, but if it does evil in my sight, not listening to my voice, then I will change my mind about the good that I had intended to do to it.” Jer. 18:7-10 (NRSV). - I am just providing the proper context for Ellen White’s prophecies that you are calling into doubt. But you can use the above quote from Jeremiah or the story of Noah or the story of the Isreallites in the wilderness contained in Ellen White’s quote and the Bible if you need further justification.
C
CatholicLover
Guest
You mean after all that’s been posted in this thread, you’re really asking that? LOL
The leader and founder of Adventism, Ellen Gould White, falsely prophesied that some of her followers (at the meeting they were at) would not see mortal death but, instead, would be translated. They are all dead now, including Ellen White. Does this false promise/prophecy alarm you at all? :sad_yes:
I think we’ve dealt with this one already.
The SDA disinformation campaign is very intriguing. For example, the Lord Jesus said that we have consciousness when our mortal bodies die, but the SDA disinformation campaign says that the Lord Jesus is wrong e.g. SDAs teach that we don’t have consciousness at death. Does this false doctrine of soul sleep alarm you at all? :doh2:
I think this has been discussed previously in the thread also. This belief is supported in the Bible.
To be baptized into Adventism, one must accept the doctrine of soul sleep. If a baptismal candidate refuses to accept the SDA doctrine of soul sleep, then baptism is denied. When the apostles began baptizing people, they were baptized into Christ and not into the doctrine of soul sleep. Denying baptism into Christ makes the SDA a cult i.e. you can only be baptized into Adventism and their kooky doctrines, to include soul sleep!!! Does denying baptism into Christ alarm you at all? :imsorry:
Why would one want to be baptised into a church if he does not agree with their doctrines? Most if not all Churches and denominations require you to accept their core beliefs prior to baptism. I’m not sure what you think the significance of this statement is.
C
CatholicLover
Guest
More SDA stuff that’s wrong**:**
The Seventh-day Adventists also believe that the United States is the “beast with lamb like horns” in Revelation 13**;** and the SDAs believe that the U.S. will force everyone on earth to worship on Sundays. If you don’t find this to be strange, then something is wrong.
Who do you believe the beast with lamb like horns is? I’m sure that group of people is equally offended.
Here’s a cut-and-paste from one of their prophecy websites:
"The prophecy of Revelation 13 declares that the power represented by the beast with lamblike horns shall cause the earth and them which dwell therein to worship the papacy --there symbolized by the beast…"
Source:
[america(name removed by moderator)rophecy.com/americainbibleprophecy/libertyofconsciencethreatened.asp](http://www.america(name removed by moderator)rophecy.com/americainbibleprophecy/libertyofconsciencethreatened.asp)
(about the 48th paragraph down)
So in SDA theology, the United States will cause all people on earth to worship the papacy? lolololololol okay whatever.
As a result of the above bizarre SDA theology and before the fall of the Soviet Union, the Russians loved the Adventists and welcomed them with open arms because many SDAs were against the U.S.
I asked before, where did you find this little gem about the Russians loving Adventists? I didn’t know we were so popular.
Aaround the 1950s, SDAs and JWs regularly refused to serve in the Armed Forces of the U.S., due to their strange SDA biblical interpretation that the U.S. is mystery Babylon. There were many SDA conscientious objectors.
I’ve adressed this before and I find it particularly insulting. I know many Adventists who have proudly served their country in the military.
The deeper you dig into Adventism, the stranger it gets.
Knowledge is POWER.
C
CatholicLover
Guest
Well said.
M
me_again
Guest
Ellen White’s prophecy failed and all her followers died, to include White. Instead of admitting that her SDA prophecy was false, you use more of Ellen White’s writings to prove that her failed prophecy was justified because “God changed His mind.”me again;6818873:
believe that Ellen White’s prophecy is from the Lord Jesus Christ, even though the prophecy failed to come to pass.
There is something that is gravely and spiritually wrong with this analysis.
- Instead of admitting that Ellen White made a false prophecy, you used more of Ellen White’s writings to justify her false prophecy.
1. It did not need my acknowledgement, the record is there for all to see.
- Jeremiah among other books makes it clear that some of God’s prophecies are conditional:
"At one moment I may declare concerning a nation or a kingdom, that I will pluck up and break down and destroy it, but if that nation, concerning which I have spoken, turns from its evil, I will change my mind about the disaster that I intended to bring on it. And at another moment I may declare concerning a nation or a kingdom that I will build and plant it, but if it does evil in my sight, not listening to my voice, then I will change my mind about the good that I had intended to do to it.” Jer. 18:7-10 (NRSV).- I am just providing the proper context for Ellen White’s prophecies that you are calling into doubt. But you can use the above quote from Jeremiah or the story of Noah or the story of the Isreallites in the wilderness contained in Ellen White’s quote and the Bible if you need further justification.
This kind of demonic reasoning shows that many SDAs are deluded**:**
2 Thessalonians 2:9-12
Even him, whose coming is after the working of Satan with all power and signs and lying wonders,
And with all deceivableness of unrighteousness in them that perish; because they received not the love of the truth, that they might be saved.
And for this cause **God shall send them strong delusion, that they should believe a lie:
That they all might be damned who believed not the truth, but had pleasure in unrighteousness**.
Only the Holy Spirit can help the SDAs break-free from their demonic entrapment. This entire thread demonstrates the hardness of the SDAs hearts. They are to be categorized with the JWs.
The facts have been presented. Good bye.
K
KathleenGee
Guest
I believe that Jesus Christ is True God and True Man. He completed His mission on earth, including establishing His church through His Spirit, the Holy Spirit with the Apostles and their successors.
The SDA’s act as if the Lord did not forgive past members in the Catholic Church of their sins, but of anybody else in the world.
Again, as the sentiment towards Catholicism is not Christ like among SDA’s, it is better to find common ground of same belief…otherwise, as SDA’s have shared beliefs, then they as well reap the same demise as the Catholic Church.
To have anti-Catholicism and day worship as the center of your religion is flawed. It is reactionary and denies the fullness and work of Who Jesus Christ is and His presence remaining with us.
Only in the Catholic and Orthodox Churches does the physical presence of God in Christ remain with us. It is up to each believer to live to the fullness of their faith in following Christ, not the denomination of these Churches in themselves. The problem is that SDA condemns these Churches with much prejudice and misinformation.
The SDA’s act as if the Lord did not forgive past members in the Catholic Church of their sins, but of anybody else in the world.
Again, as the sentiment towards Catholicism is not Christ like among SDA’s, it is better to find common ground of same belief…otherwise, as SDA’s have shared beliefs, then they as well reap the same demise as the Catholic Church.
To have anti-Catholicism and day worship as the center of your religion is flawed. It is reactionary and denies the fullness and work of Who Jesus Christ is and His presence remaining with us.
Only in the Catholic and Orthodox Churches does the physical presence of God in Christ remain with us. It is up to each believer to live to the fullness of their faith in following Christ, not the denomination of these Churches in themselves. The problem is that SDA condemns these Churches with much prejudice and misinformation.
R
Richard_Kastner
Guest
This is very true.
What do you men by “act” and what do you mean by " but of anybody else in the world"
Kathleen, I have no idea what this means. Could you clarify?
The ministry of the word of God is the center of the SDA religion the only anti retoric I have seen on this thread comes from Catholics.
This certainly is not brought out in scripture.
What denominations? The Catholic and Orthodox?
Again except for attempts to correct Catholic misinformation the only condemnation on this thread has been from Catholics.
- Status