Info on SDA

[greggy53]

Good post Ron - Jehovah-Jireh has provided His Church with His Son to be the visible Church’s Head. (Chief Cornerstone).

As you said, neither the Roman Catholic Church, nor any other Church has “preserved” or “written” the Bible in any sense. It was discovered via various manuscripts, by various people, and not being limited to any one group. When we read in the Bible how that God made the Church to be the pillar of His Truth; He did not intend it as in the preserving sense; but in the sense of disseminating. It is this that I feel the Catholic Church has not done.

Discovered by various people?..via various manuscripts?..But how do you know which manuscripts are the inspired word of God and which are not? How do you know what books belong in the Bible? I suppose “various people” said that this is the word of God? But nobody knows who they were, and they didn’t leave any written evidence of their findings did they? It’s pure invention fabricated in order to rewrite history. Blindness, and confusion.

 

[benidict]

hi ron. you stated that the Christians moved away from Judaism, around 200 a.d. due to persecution etc. this is interesting. because Jews i have heard from, who have converted to Catholocism, have stated that when they first went to mass, they were stunned. because it was so much like Judaism, Except for Jesus being the focus. not the law. also look at the Jewish prayer books, and the Roman Missal. they are eerily similar. i have a copy of both, and consider both indespensible. very similar format, too. one more thing. my Priest is of Jewish heritage. he studies the rabbinic sages, the zohar, and the Torah, in their original languages. as do i just not in the original languages lol!, and i was studying these things. long before i met him. thats another story. anyhow. the Roman Catholic Church today, in his words, IS the closest thing to temple Judaism we have. it is the continuation of the covenant that God gave to the People of Israel. it is the new covenant. and i firmly believe as the Church teaches, that God is not done with the Jewish people, but we have been grafted in, and they and we. will again be One people. Peace to you. and May God bless you, a child of abraham.

 

[andrewv33]

Welcome Rexpi .

Question for you…

Although I like SDA culture and practices and I find it the closest to me and to Islam in general. BUT the 1863 origin for SDA keeps me back, I personally find it hard to accept a Church which Jesus apostles didn’t start, what do you think?

Are you looking for Christ or are you looking for a church that has a good sounding band, or maybe you are impressed by pomp and ceremony…
Please do not take me the wrong way, i am being honest.

You will only know Christ if the church you go to preaches directly from the bible… you might think it sounds crazy what i am saying but there are many places that teach another spirit (2Co 11:4 For if he that cometh preacheth another Jesus, whom we have not preached, or if ye receive another spirit, which ye have not received, or another gospel, which ye have not accepted, ye might well bear with him. )

Dont forget Rev 12:9 And the great dragon was cast out, that old serpent, called the Devil, and Satan, which deceiveth the whole world: he was cast out into the earth, and his angels were cast out with him.

1Th 5:21 Prove all things; hold fast that which is good. = If its not in the bible than do not do or believe it! Simple.

If you say you like the Christ you hear, in that particular Church then make sure you have your bible with you to prove what you are being taught!

 

[SteveVH]

Are you looking for Christ or are you looking for a church that has a good sounding band, or maybe you are impressed by pomp and ceremony…
Please do not take me the wrong way, i am being honest.

You will only know Christ if the church you go to preaches directly from the bible… you might think it sounds crazy what i am saying but there are many places that teach another spirit (2Co 11:4 For if he that cometh preacheth another Jesus, whom we have not preached, or if ye receive another spirit, which ye have not received, or another gospel, which ye have not accepted, ye might well bear with him. )

Dont forget Rev 12:9 And the great dragon was cast out, that old serpent, called the Devil, and Satan, which deceiveth the whole world: he was cast out into the earth, and his angels were cast out with him.

1Th 5:21 Prove all things; hold fast that which is good. = If its not in the bible than do not do or believe it! Simple.

If you say you like the Christ you hear, in that particular Church then make sure you have your bible with you to prove what you are being taught!

And if I disagree with your interpretation, then where are we to go? Shall we each start our own “Bible Church”? I believe that when Jesus said “This is my body”, that is exactly what He meant. I am assuming that you believe He was referring to it symbolically. Where do we go from there? This is why we have tens of thousands of different denominations, each of which “preaches directly from the Bible”. If you were knocking on my door I am sure that you would claim to have the truth based upon “the plain teachings of the Bible”. The next day someone else could come and claim the same thing but have an entirely different take on it. This type of thinking has taken the unity that Jesus desired for His Church and shattered it into thousands of peices, leaving people wandering in the desert searching for truth.

 

[greggy53]

Welcome Rexpi .

Question for you…

Although I like SDA culture and practices and I find it the closest to me and to Islam in general. BUT the 1863 origin for SDA keeps me back, I personally find it hard to accept a Church which Jesus apostles didn’t start, what do you think?

Or how about a Church that was started by Jesus himself ! Now that is a novel idea…The Catholic Church was started by our Lord right there in the book of Matthew.

 

[KathleenGee]

I came back to www.Bibleprobe.com today. The person who puts it together is an Arab Christian who has lived in the Middle East, grew up in Catholic school, is an Evangelical Christian, last I heard, and gives alot of information on all sorts of topics.

He has defended the Catholics from the bum rap SDA’s give us. Now I noticed he is mentioning the sacraments and emailed him to find out if he come into the Church. He also talks about the great apostasy we are living in today that many Christians across the board would agree with.

He works to develop a common bond among all Christians.

www.Bibleprobe.com

 

[Javl]

Are you looking for Christ or are you looking for a church that has a good sounding band, or maybe you are impressed by pomp and ceremony…
Please do not take me the wrong way, i am being honest.

You will only know Christ if the church you go to preaches directly from the bible… you might think it sounds crazy what i am saying but there are many places that teach another spirit (2Co 11:4 For if he that cometh preacheth another Jesus, whom we have not preached, or if ye receive another spirit, which ye have not received, or another gospel, which ye have not accepted, ye might well bear with him. )

Dont forget Rev 12:9 And the great dragon was cast out, that old serpent, called the Devil, and Satan, which deceiveth the whole world: he was cast out into the earth, and his angels were cast out with him.

1Th 5:21 Prove all things; hold fast that which is good. = If its not in the bible than do not do or believe it! Simple.

If you say you like the Christ you hear, in that particular Church then make sure you have your bible with you to prove what you are being taught!

The ONLY Church that teaches exactly what Jesus Christ and the Apostles taught, for two thousand years without change, alteration and addition, is the Catholic Church. It has the fullness of Truth that all others are missing. The Catholic Church uses the Bible in its teachings and all its teachings are supported by the Bible. Two thousand years of history proves this and to try to prove othrwise is, again as I have stated many times before, an exercise in futility.

PAX DOMINI

Shalom Aleichem

 

[Protestant101]

The ONLY Church that teaches exactly what Jesus Christ and the Apostles taught, for two thousand years without change, alteration and addition, is the Catholic Church. It has the fullness of Truth that all others are missing. The Catholic Church uses the Bible in its teachings and all its teachings are supported by the Bible. Two thousand years of history proves this and to try to prove othrwise is, again as I have stated many times before, an exercise in futility. PAX DOMINI

Shalom Aleichem

I am sure you find comfort in such a statement; yet what you say is not proven true from the Bible or from History. The Church comprises “God’s called ones,” and that is not just limited to your denomination.

 

[KathleenGee]

The Church recognizes a sincere heart who loves Christ…no matter who or where they are.

The Bible ended with Revelation, but it was also the beginning of Christ’s Church. The Bible followed. So there is also, through the Holy Spirit, Whom Christ said would follow Him after He left, that would teach the apostles many things, and that they would do much more than He.

He was referring to His Church and all His believers to come… who lived the Word of God and the Sacraments…the two are inseparable.

You cannot separate the Bible from its believers and Christ’s Church. You can’t understand the Church if you do not know its history from – an objective source. So using stand alone bible quotes won’t render better comprehension without the admittance that early Christians on down in the Church were applying their faith appropriately.

Jesus is the Word of God Made Flesh.

 

[Javl]

I am sure you find comfort in such a statement; yet what you say is not proven true from the Bible or from History. The Church comprises “God’s called ones,” and that is not just limited to your denomination.

My friend. I see from your statement that you do not know any history of the Catholic Church, for, if you did, you would not make such a statement. In all Christian Charity, I ask if you have ever bothered to investigate the Catholic Church thoroughly, with an open mind? There has been much lies, myths, mis-conceptions, etc. made about the Catholic Church by her enemies. If you have ever bothered to investigate, you would be much surprised at what you would learn, such as there are more converts to Catholicism than all other religions combined. If you pray to the Holy Spirit for guidance, discernment, and wisdom, with an open mind and heart He will definitely guide you to the truth and the true Church, as He did me. God Bless.

PAX DOMINI

Shalom Aleichem

 

[KathleenGee]

Andrew,

You need to re-read the Catholics’ response to Protestant 101 and RontheJew.

The Messianic Jews have the same problems as Protestants with interpreting the Word of God. The Hebrew Catholics do not have these issues. As Javl suggested, you should spend some time just reading the Hebrew perspective, let alone objective history of Christianity.

There is the Liturgy and Sacrament forum that is highly educational.

 

[KathleenGee]

The other thing I question is why people continue to come back here year after year to dispute…our responses are the same.

The Lord will judge us by how we serve Him…

He did not invite us to the bible…He invited us to His banquet table.

 

[Protestant101]

Andrew,

You need to re-read the Catholics’ response to Protestant 101 and RontheJew.

The Messianic Jews have the same problems as Protestants with interpreting the Word of God. The Hebrew Catholics do not have these issues. As Javl suggested, you should spend some time just reading the Hebrew perspective, let alone objective history of Christianity.

There is the Liturgy and Sacrament forum that is highly educational.

Actually, we do not have problems “interpreting” the Bible. This is a Catholic apologetics ruse. It must be noted that all groups have their own brands/versions of history, and many of these differ. It is easy to see how history alone cannot tell us Bible truth.

Even on this forum; we see many different Catholics, all seeing the Bible differently, some of them even disagreeing with the Pope’s final say so. You shouldn’t try to act like your denomination is so different than other Christians in terms of “interpretation.”

God’s Church; and God’s people, started back in Eden, well before your “year after year” claims of being “the first Church.” But even if you were the “first church,” your beliefs have definitely strayed from what was “first taught” well before any Catholic came into existence. The Adventist Church is simply a continuation of what was “first taught,” and like many other denominations, working in concert to reflect unity in the diversity which you keep deriding as “problems interpreting.”

 

[greggy53]

God’s Church; and God’s people, started back in Eden, well before your “year after year” claims of being “the first Church.” But even if you were the “first church,” your beliefs have definitely strayed from what was “first taught” well before any Catholic came into existence. The Adventist Church is simply a continuation of what was “first taught,” and like many other denominations, working in concert to reflect unity in the diversity which you keep deriding as “problems interpreting.”

So then we at least agree that the Church came before the Bible… And how do the Adventist know what was first taught? I’m not necessarily talking faith here I’m talking epistemology. For example what 1st century writings can you refer to that affirm what you are doing is right?

 

[Javl]

Actually, we do not have problems “interpreting” the Bible. This is a Catholic apologetics ruse. It must be noted that all groups have their own brands/versions of history, and many of these differ. It is easy to see how history alone cannot tell us Bible truth.

Even on this forum; we see many different Catholics, all seeing the Bible differently, some of them even disagreeing with the Pope’s final say so. You shouldn’t try to act like your denomination is so different than other Christians in terms of “interpretation.”

God’s Church; and God’s people, started back in Eden, well before your “year after year” claims of being “the first Church.” But even if you were the “first church,” your beliefs have definitely strayed from what was “first taught” well before any Catholic came into existence. The Adventist Church is simply a continuation of what was “first taught,” and like many other denominations, working in concert to reflect unity in the diversity which you keep deriding as “problems interpreting.”

Have you any proof to back up your statement(s)?

PAX DOMINI

Shalom Aleichem

 

[activeCatholic]

So then we at least agree that the Church came before the Bible… And how do the Adventist know what was first taught? I’m not necessarily talking faith here I’m talking epistemology. For example what 1st century writings can you refer to that affirm what you are doing is right?

Could it not be more properly said that the Church became before the NT was formalized. The OT was around way before any Christian Church.

 

[KathleenGee]

Protestant 101, first of all, then why the contempt for the sacraments and the authority of Peter given Him by Christ???

Why all the disunity? Why can’t we then pray and love one another…?

How come so much emphasis on the Bible but ignoring the calls of the Lord for us to be one?

For the fundamentalists to claim so much on God’s initial and everlasting forgiveness of all our sins through Jesus Christ, then why aren’t the fundamentalists forgiving the sins of the the past in the Catholics’ history?

I do not see forgiveness, but ongoing condemnation and sense of superiority…and no culture.

 

[Javl]

Protestant 101, first of all, then why the contempt for the sacraments and the authority of Peter given Him by Christ???

Why all the disunity? Why can’t we then pray and love one another…?

How come so much emphasis on the Bible but ignoring the calls of the Lord for us to be one?

For the fundamentalists to claim so much on God’s initial and everlasting forgiveness of all our sins through Jesus Christ, then why aren’t the fundamentalists forgiving the sins of the the past in the Catholics’ history?

I do not see forgiveness, but ongoing condemnation and sense of superiority…and no culture.

Huzzah, Kathleen. I agree with you 100%. We Catholics do not judge and do forgive. I’ve yet to see any Christian charity exhibited by the SDA.

PAX DOMINI

Shalom Aleichem

 

[KathleenGee]

Javl,

It is a serious abuse of the Sacred Word of God to use it to condemn baptized believers.

The Word of God is to redeem us, to build us up in the Lord and His wisdom, and our Church has been doing this since Pentecost.

 

[greggy53]

Could it not be more properly said that the Church became before the NT was formalized. The OT was around way before any Christian Church.

Before the Christian Church there was still the Church. Before there could be anything written down OT or New God had his chosen people. Right?