intercession

[edwinG]

Tom:

God uses angels, men and saints for intercession

Hi Tom , thanks for keeping on.
I understand how men are necessary for intercession. I think we both agree that the intercessor really does benefit himself in this act of love.Of course in all things sincerity is a prerequisite.
Angels, messenges and servants, but how did you learn of their work of intercession?
And I have the same question regarding saints.
Thank you Tom
Christ be with you
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edwinG

 

[edwinG]

Sarah Jane:

Your parents and friends pray for you by the Holy Spirit. The saints in heaven are with us the Body of Christ. They pray God for us like your friends pray for you.

Hi Sarah Jane,
Thank you very much.
This is the piece of information I am needing" The saints pray God for us like your friends pray for you."
Where is this in scripture? Can you give me a reference please?
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walk in love
edwinG

 

[edwinG]

Tom:

Those of us who follow the Catholic Church do indeed have the Holy Spirit in our lives, as was promised by our Lord in Jn 14.

Tom,
I am not doubting in the slighest little bit that you have the Holy Spirit. I believe that you believe in Christ, I believe that you believe He comes from God. I believe that you believe He is the only begotton Son of God. I believe that you believe He is resurrected. etc etc
What I am saying is that the other name of the Holy Spirit is the comforter.How did He comfort you this week? What did He do for you this week? Where did He lead you yesterday?
Let me explain it this way.
The Holy Spirit is alive and is living in you. Now He will lead you, everywhere. Cross out the word luck and put in blessed. IT is His leading. He will help you catch a bus,find a parking space or a taxi. He will lead you away from temptation. In every aspect of your life you have Him looking after you. Nothing Nothing can happen to you unless it is for your benefit. You cant even be wet by the rain. He will turn it on and off for you or keep you “in” until it is over. He LOVES you. What would you do if you loved some one as a fraction as much as your Father loves you. Well He does that for you. Tribulation also is our joy. Do you understand that in everything Satan throws at you and is allowed by God is for your joy. Talk about male bonding. See how close knit some tough sports people are. When you suffer together you really bond. God knows us perfectly.He made us. If you received everything in the mail and did not have to strive and suffer for it you would not appreciate it and you would not feel so close to your companions. No bonding. Tribulations bind us and make our love grow. IT creates a close knit family. Every nasty thing satan does is turned by God’s wisdom into good. Now I know we dont like tribulation, but when it is over we feel stronger. Much tribulation brings on a lot of respect and admiration in each other. Imagine sitting in heaven and all the saints are talking about their tribulations and you said, oh all my stuff came in the mail. IT was easy. Where is that value and friendship the love.
You deserve the active Holy Spirit in your life Tom. Call on Him, and He will come alive to you. oh how wonderful your life can be.
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walk in love
edwinG

 

[edwinG]

Tom:

Edwin, your arguments rest on the mistaken belief that we feel the use of intercessors is something that God needs. That is totally false. He doesn’t need intercessors, they are His gift to us. I don’t “need” to be speaking to you about this, God has given us this friendship. He doesn’t need it, it’s His gift to us. Can we reject it? Sure! I could close the ‘puter and forget the name of EdwinG, why would I? God has given you to me and me to you as His children, the brothers and sisters of His Son, Jesus. Can we reject each other? Sure we can, as we can reject the use of His saints as intercessors. I think your problem with accepting saints as intercessors is that you’re trying to justify “why” God uses saints, whereas I simply accept that He does.
May the peace and love of our Lord, Jesus the Christ, be with you
Tom

Hi Tom,
I am sorry if I have conveyed that impression. I fully believe that God does not need us to act as intercessors. Our act of intercession is mainly for our own ( the intercessor’s ) benefit. The intercession is made by the Holy Spirit who prayers spiritually for us and by Jesus Christ our only mediator.
How did you learn that the saints in heaven can act as intercessors for us. I believe the scripture points to their knowledge of us and the happenings but of their being at rest. Note also the previous post. It pointed out an excellent reference and explanation regarding Paul and his continuing work on earth as he was unable to help if he departed in sleep.
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walk in love
edwin G

 

[Sarah_Jane]

edwinG:

Hi Sarah Jane,
Thank you very much.
This is the piece of information I am needing" The saints pray God for us like your friends pray for you."
Where is this in scripture? Can you give me a reference please?
Christ be with youhttp://forums.catholic-questions.org/images/icons/icon7.gif
walk in love
edwinG

And when he had taken the book, the four beasts and four and twenty elders fell down before the Lamb, having every one of them harps, and golden vials full of odours, which are the prayers of saints. (Revelation 5:8)

 

[Tom]

edwinG:

Angels, messenges and servants, but how did you learn of their work of intercession? And I have the same question regarding saints.

Edwin, I have a lectionary I follow, it’s a schedule of daily readings, which insures every word of Scripture is read, the one I use works on a 3-year cycle. I read the Old Testament, as well as the New, every day. One thing that strikes me in reading the Old Testament is the use of intercession by God. It is in every book of Scripture. If you read the OT with a mindset to look for intercession it will jump out at you. Now the use of saints is mainly from the New Testament, as I posted earlier, God used Isaiah and Elijah for intercession, each a saint in heaven. Start reading Scripture looking for instances of intercession. They are everywhere.

 

[jpusateri]

YAQUBOS:

Peace be with you!

Yes, amen! All live TO HIM, but not to us.

In Love,
Yaqubos†

Huh? Are you suggesting that they are not objectively alive?

 

[edwinG]

Tom:

Edwin, I have a lectionary I follow, it’s a schedule of daily readings, which insures every word of Scripture is read, the one I use works on a 3-year cycle. I read the Old Testament, as well as the New, every day. One thing that strikes me in reading the Old Testament is the use of intercession by God. It is in every book of Scripture. If you read the OT with a mindset to look for intercession it will jump out at you. Now the use of saints is mainly from the New Testament, as I posted earlier, God used Isaiah and Elijah for intercession, each a saint in heaven. Start reading Scripture looking for instances of intercession. They are everywhere.

Hi Tom
Thank you for this post.
I will try to develop the mindset to look for intercession as I read the bible. Thanks again for these words. I understand how easily a meaning can escape me.
Christ be with you
walk in love
edwinGhttp://forums.catholic-questions.org/images/icons/icon7.gif

 

[Tom]

We’ve already covered most of the Scriptural references of the NT: Rv 5:8; Rv8:3;Rv 8:4;Mt 17;Mk 9 and Luke 9, the OT there are simply too many to quote. There are of course mainy instances of saintly intercession since the end of the writing of the Bible, they are of course extra Biblical. Catholic.com web site has several books available.

 

[edwinG]

Tom:

We’ve already covered most of the Scriptural references of the NT: Rv 5:8; Rv8:3;Rv 8:4;Mt 17;Mk 9 and Luke 9, the OT there are simply too many to quote. There are of course mainy instances of saintly intercession since the end of the writing of the Bible, they are of course extra Biblical. Catholic.com web site has several books available.

Hi Tom,
Thank you for the references. I will follow the pattern from your earlier post and look for intercession as I read.
my love to you
edwinGhttp://forums.catholic-questions.org/images/icons/icon7.gif

 

[Tom]

Edwin, what in the world are you doing up at this hour, it must be the middle of the night over there… LOL.
May the peace and love of our Lord, Jesus the Christ, be with you
Tom

 

[YAQUBOS]

Peace be with you!

jpusateri:

Huh? Are you suggesting that they are not objectively alive?

They are ABSOLUTELY alive for God. But there is an ABSOLUTE truth called DEATH IN FLESH that separates us from them. And there is an ABSOLUTE truth called RESURRECTION OF THE BODIES that did NOT happen yet.

In Love,
Yaqubos†

 

[Sarah_Jane]

YAQUBOS:

Peace be with you!

They are ABSOLUTELY alive for God. But there is an ABSOLUTE truth called DEATH IN FLESH that separates us from them. And there is an ABSOLUTE truth called RESURRECTION OF THE BODIES that did NOT happen yet.

In Love,
Yaqubos†

The saints in heaven are more alive than us, because they are with God, who is the Life.

 

[jpusateri]

YAQUBOS:

Peace be with you!

They are ABSOLUTELY alive for God. But there is an ABSOLUTE truth called DEATH IN FLESH that separates us from them. And there is an ABSOLUTE truth called RESURRECTION OF THE BODIES that did NOT happen yet.

In Love,
Yaqubos†

And also with you.

I don’t recall these words from the scriptures. Where have you come up with them? I believe that there is no difference in their “aliveness” for God vs. for everyone else. I have never heard of such a distinction.

Thanks in advance for your detailed clarification.

 

[edwinG]

Tom:

Edwin, what in the world are you doing up at this hour, it must be the middle of the night over there… LOL.
May the peace and love of our Lord, Jesus the Christ, be with you
Tom

Hi Tom,
6am .LOL
I work as a casual teacher. I am not qualified nor do I have a batchelors degree so in Thailand I am not really counted as having anything worth while.But Christ looks after me. So at the moment, say the last 5 weeks, my only work has been for a short time at night and on the weekends, around church . Maybe next week I will start back at school for the second semester ( a short one with broken hours) and my time will be considerably reduced for a while. Can you tell me the time difference between Thailand and say central time in the USA.
Christ be with you
walk in love
edwinhttp://forums.catholic-questions.org/images/icons/icon7.gif

 

[YAQUBOS]

Peace!
Sarah Jane:

The saints in heaven are more alive than us, because they are with God, who is the Life.

Yes, alive for God, and not for us ( how many times did I repeat this till now? )…

As you say: “The saints in heaven”, not on earth.

In Love,
Yaqubos†

 

[YAQUBOS]

Peace be with you!

jpusateri:

And also with you.

I don’t recall these words from the scriptures. Where have you come up with them? I believe that there is no difference in their “aliveness” for God vs. for everyone else. I have never heard of such a distinction.

Thanks in advance for your detailed clarification.

Do you believe in death? Is the Bible saying anything about death?

By the way:

“There shall not be found among you anyone who makes his son or his daughter pass through the fire, one who uses divination, one who practices witchcraft, or one who interprets omens, or a sorcerer,
or one who casts a spell, or a medium, or a spiritist, or one who calls up the dead.” ( Deuteronomy 18:10-11 )

Why calling the dead, if the dead saint is everywhere?

In Love,
Yaqubos†

 

[Psalm45_9]

YAQUBOS:

Peace be with you!

Do you believe in death? Is the Bible saying anything about death?

By the way:

“There shall not be found among you anyone who makes his son or his daughter pass through the fire, one who uses divination, one who practices witchcraft, or one who interprets omens, or a sorcerer,
or one who casts a spell, or a medium, or a spiritist, or one who calls up the dead.” ( Deuteronomy 18:10-11 )

Why calling the dead, if the dead saint is everywhere?

In Love,
Yaqubos†

Pax Vobiscvm

These passages condemn, Quiji boards, Tarot Cards, and séances if anything; we are asking the people who stand before God to present our petitions to him, we are not asking them to reveal the Future. Do not take the passage out of context. Then again, how do you know that passage is the Word of God? Once again, on Yom Kippur, the Jews will ask the intercession of their deceased relatives, are they going against the Torah? Why do you ask your friends and family members to pray for you, are your alive friends everywhere?

 

[Gene_C]

To Yaqubos,

I’d like to ask you a couple of questions before jumping in on this thread about Intercession.

When you read and study the Scriptures, do you consult any other tools such as commentaries? In other words, do you check to see what other believers have written about the text you are contemplating? If the answer to this question is yes, which authors do you read? Only evangelical or also Catholic and Orthodox? If only evangelical, do you only consult Bible scholars who are still living or do you go back into the history of the church to see what those who’ve lived before our generation have to say about the text?

If you don’t consult other Christians writings on the text, do you just rely on the Holy Spirit and prayer and pray about it? (The early Church Fathers believed that an exegete could not study the Scriptures properly unless one was living a holy and prayerful life.)

Do you listen to what your pastor has to say about a text?

Just to let you know who I am, I am new to this Forum. I was raised Catholic, received Christ by faith at the age of 20, and have spent the last 31 years in evangelical Christianity. Now I have come to see the fallacy of Sola Scriptura and Sola Fide and am doing a heavy-duty study on Catholic dogma. I am about to re-enter the Catholic Church. I know how you are looking at the Scriptures because I have done the same thing myself.

I hope to have a healthy dialogue with you.

Blessings,
Gene
New York City

 

[edwinG]

Gene C.:

To Yaqubos,

I’d like to ask you a couple of questions before jumping in on this thread about Intercession.

When you read and study the Scriptures, do you consult any other tools such as commentaries? In other words, do you check to see what other believers have written about the text you are contemplating? If the answer to this question is yes, which authors do you read? Only evangelical or also Catholic and Orthodox? If only evangelical, do you only consult Bible scholars who are still living or do you go back into the history of the church to see what those who’ve lived before our generation have to say about the text?

If you don’t consult other Christians writings on the text, do you just rely on the Holy Spirit and prayer and pray about it? (The early Church Fathers believed that an exegete could not study the Scriptures properly unless one was living a holy and prayerful life.)

Do you listen to what your pastor has to say about a text?

Just to let you know who I am, I am new to this Forum. I was raised Catholic, received Christ by faith at the age of 20, and have spent the last 31 years in evangelical Christianity. Now I have come to see the fallacy of Sola Scriptura and Sola Fide and am doing a heavy-duty study on Catholic dogma. I am about to re-enter the Catholic Church. I know how you are looking at the Scriptures because I have done the same thing myself.

I hope to have a healthy dialogue with you.

Blessings,
Gene
New York City

Hi Gene,
I wont answer Yaqubos’s question but I am certainly interested to hear about the fallacy of Sola Scripture and Sola Fida as you understand it.
I have been a member here for many weeks maybe 6 or so and there has been threads on this subject. I am not a Roman Catholic, just a christian.
Christ be with you.
walk in love
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