Islam

[coleraine]

Salaam/peace

and the holy Bible gives only one option for disbelievers : destroy the whole city including kattles. I wonder , why kill inncoent domestic animals because of sinners ?

i have explained this to you already. that is in the OT or the Torah. not in the gospel of christ which we base our actions on. please stop trying to mislead people. when you are asked a question, make note of the question and answer it directly without escaping.

 

[Angelos]

Salaam/peace

and the holy Bible gives only one option for disbelievers : destroy the whole city including kattles. I wonder , why kill inncoent domestic animals because of sinners ?

Don’t you believe in the account of Noah’s flood? Your Koran agrees with the book of Genesis that “innocent animals” died in the flood because of sinful humans.

 

[cathopologist]

Really? Then why the War was waged against innocent Iraqi children, men and women to disperse/kill them too?Did Saddam disperse/kill them under his Christian Prime Ministership?

If you analyzed correctly, you would have found people from all walks of life, race, religion and culture who objected to the war - that includes the Catholic Church. Are you so ignorant of the tyranny Saddam brought forth to his own people? He killed innocent Muslims alongside Christians. When the war started, Muslims started killing their own Christian neighbors because they thought they were traitors and spies for the invading U.S army. How do you justify that?

Are you talking to yourself and saying if the War was not inflicted upon innocent Iraqis and incidents such as Abu Gharib were not had happened, then, they still would have been living there?

Unfortunately the war did happen and amongst the dead, were innocent Iraqi Christians. Again, some were killed by the U.S militarymen during raids, others killed by their own Muslim neighbors whom they might have known for decades. Aren’t citizens supposed to protect each other during wartime? Instead, we heard the reverse happened. Please justify that.

 

[cathopologist]

and the holy Bible gives only one option for disbelievers : destroy the whole city including kattles. I wonder , why kill inncoent domestic animals because of sinners ?

So how does Islam justify the massacre of innocent dogs because your prophet disliked them?

 

[R_not]

the way he post and analyze, i think they are the same

Yeah, I am thinking the same thing the more I read his posts. Which sort of makes all this arguing about islam even more inane since all these arguments have been gone over so many times with planten/Analyzer. I find the id of ‘analyzer’ ironic too! I haven’t figured out what Analyzer is analyzing! He certainly hasn’t analyzed anything in islam.

His id should be more like ‘Confuser’. It is one tactic in islam to confuse the issues.

 

[R_not]

**Really? Then why the War was waged against innocent Iraqi children, men and women to disperse/kill them too?

Did Saddam disperse/kill them under his Christian Prime Ministership?

Then you are strangely asking this:**

**

Are you talking to yourself and saying if the War was not inflicted upon innocent Iraqis and incidents such as Abu Gharib were not had happened, then, they still would have been living there?**

Our guys have found weapons caches in places where children go to, such as schools and also in mosques. Our troops have rebuilt schools and have since ensured that all children go to school, including little girls.

Our guys have rebuilt roads - the same roads that muslims are too darn lazy to rebuild and that are blown up. Our troops have found mass burial graves where Hussein threw the bodies after he tortured/slaughtered them. Since we have been in Iraq the Iraqi economy has risen tremendously.

Our troops have walked into houses that muslims have massacred whole families. Currently, muslims are threatening Christians with death if they do not convert and we see that hundreds of Christian families move, or are killed, or are forced to convert (yeah - that no compulsion in religion is only for those muslims here in the West to use as propaganda against us while in reality it isn’t true!)

Battle for Sadr City

muslims coming in to kill (muslims or others) are jihadists from saudi arabia, pakistan, yemen, Egypt, Iran and other muslim countries. They were certiainly a-ok with Hussein killing and torturing and now they just can’t handle it that the Iraqis could live an existence without all that so muslims just have to bring in some more chaos!

 

[R_not]

Well, we see once again, that women are increasingly becoming murderers - oh, I almost forgot - islamic martyrs. Yeah - take a look at my signature and you will see what I think about islamic martyrs! /sarcasm!

palestinian women murderers

The muslims surrounding lob bombs into Israel on a daily basis, Israel has tried so many times to make peace that I lost count while the muslims surrounding them have broken every, single peace treaty. And then they claim they are the victims. Sorry, but the history of all of this does not point to the muslims being the victims, but quite the opposite. They could have had peace so many times and they refuse because they are unable to fathom that the Israelis don’t accept death, conversion or subjugation by muslims.

the Palestinian Arabs

The above website - learn the history of the Palestinians. There was a special on Fox news about this tie also. There are also quite a bit of other websites about this also if you want to do your own searches. there are ties between the ones mentioned and the MSA (muslim Student Association), the muslim brotherhood, wahabbism, Al Qaeda, CAIR, etc.

 

[R_not]

Basically islam has goals - to not make us all muslims, but to spread sharia law worldwide. yes, politics and ‘religion’ in islam are all one and the same. This is why we see sharia law in muslim lands - laws that are based on the koran (their book of battle tactics).

Well, here we have an example of their stated goals. (keep in mind that the ‘Art of War’ states that we should listen to our enemies - those who have declared war on us as the muslims have done several times - not what we want, or wish for.)

20 year plan

This is what we can do - ensure that our laws stay intact, that muslims keep their ‘religion’ at home, and to start demanding that the media, hollyweird, our politicians stop catering to only one group who are the most intolerant!

Since the muslims don’t like to read unless it is forced in front of their faces, here are a partial list of goals to complete their final goal:

1. Terminate America’s freedom of speech by replacing it with hate crime bills state-wide and nation-wide.
2. Wage a war of words using black leaders like Louis Farrakhan, Rev. Jesse Jackson and other visible religious personalities to promote Islam as the original African-American’s religion while Christianity is for the whites! Strange enough, no one tells the African-Americans that it was the Arab Muslims who captured them and sold them as slaves, neither the fact that in Arabic the word for black and slave is the same, “Abed.”
3. Engage the American public in dialogues, discussions, debates in colleges, universities, public libraries, radio, TV, churches and mosques on the virtues of Islam. Proclaim how it is historically another religion like Judaism and Christianity with the same monotheistic faith.
4. Nominate Muslim sympathizers to political office for favorable legislation to Islam and support potential sympathizers by block voting.
5. Take control of as much of Hollywood, the press, TV, radio and the internet by buying the corporations or a controlling stock.
6. Yell, “foul, out-of-context, personal interpretation, hate crime, Zionist, un- American, inaccurate interpretation of the Quran” anytime Islam is criticized or the Quran is analyzed in the public arena.
7. Encourage Muslims to penetrate the White House, specifically with Islamists who can articulate a marvelous and peaceful picture of Islam. Acquire government positions, get membership in local school boards. Train Muslims as medical doctors to dominate the medical field, research and pharmaceutical companies. Take over the computer industry. Establish Middle Eastern restaurants throughout the U.S. to connect planners of Islamization in a discreet way. Ever notice how numerous Muslim doctors in America are, when their countries need them more desperately than America?
8. Reading, writing, arithmetic and research through the American educational system, mosques and student centers (now 1500) should be sprinkled with dislike of Jews, evangelical Christians and democracy. There are 300 exclusively Muslim schools with loyalty to the Quran, not the U.S. Constitution.
9. Provide very sizeable monetary Muslim grants to colleges and universities in America to establish “Centers for Islamic studies” with Muslim directors to promote Islam in higher education institutions.
10. Let the entire world know through propaganda, speeches, seminars, local and national media that terrorists have hijacked Islam, not the truth, which is Islam hijacked the terrorists. Furthermore in January of 2002, Saudi Arabia’s Embassy in Washington mailed 4500 packets of the Quran, videos, promoting Islam to America’s high schools–free. They would never allow us to reciprocate.
11. Appeal to the historically compassionate and sensitive Americans for sympathy and tolerance towards the Muslims in America who are portrayed as mainly immigrants from oppressed countries.
12. Nullify America’s sense of security by manipulating the intelligence community with misinformation. Periodically terrorize Americans of impending attacks on bridges, tunnels, water supplies, airports, apartment buildings and malls. (We have experienced this too often since 9-11.)
13. Form riots and demonstrations in the prison system demanding Islamic Sharia as the way of life, not American’s justice system.

The list goes on… read the article. These were the ones being carried out today - and we have found many things being carried out, like the hate in their mosques and madrassas, the continual threats (warnings from the FBI) that we are going to get another attack - there currently is another one for after the elections because they don’t want to do it before the elections because they figure NOBAMA won’t get elected if they do it before.

Caliphate dreams in NYC’s muslim day parade

 

[R_not]

Here is a video (30 minutes - a free version of the one that is for sale) that has a muslim author about the Third Jihad. Yes, the jihad that is the fundamental of islam.

The Third Jihad

You will hear ‘moderates’ saying that suicide bombers are martyrs, how local muslim leaders refuse to take part in anything this muslim is saying, basically he is now an outcast in islam and has been portraying his as a dog. This is ‘moderate’ islam - learn about the 3rd jihad, or what I call the stealth jihad.

jihad is to islam as the Resurrection is to Christianity. this is what we do not understand and if you read the koran and peruse the hadiths yourself, and also learn islamic history, you will find that the goal of muslims/islam is to establish sharia law throughout the land which means for us: death, conversion or subjugation.

 

[planten]

I am catholic, and i would like to say something.

there is a thread on here that would lead you to believe that islam is evil, that it is the ant-christ, and the religion of satan. i told the poster that he was being hateful, and he told me that i have “made peace with the devil”. muslims are not satan worshipers. there are radical muslims, however, who have taken the lives of many. they are evil. but those who worship in peace are not.

** I have read only your post. It is very good and true. You learnt something, you understood and gave opinion in favor of what you found to be true. that is the best. You have done your duty. May Allah (God Almighty) reward you.

Please do not be distracted by what the others say without proof. The say many things due to prejudice. Yet they think that Jesus taught Love. What kind of love? There seems to be more hatred than love. Jesus taught the right things and the good things. We believe and follow them.

If any one says that we should believ in him as a God then that is avery serious and disputed demand. I would request those who ask us to take Jesus as a God, they should better take that teaching to the Jews first and convince them. Because Jesus was a Jew and he was for the jews. If Jews will believe that Jesus was God then we may also do it.

So please leave us alone with our good thoughts (and actual beliefs) about Jesus. We admit Jesus as a Messiah.

Now I will read all the rest of the posts in which some friends may have tried to misguide you. Thanks again for telling the truth.
**

 

[planten]

** Reply is here to your Jizyah only . There was a war imposed on the Muslims. They had to fight back. During that war time it was necessary to differentiate between friend and foe. The non-Muslims could not be called to fight and defend the Muslim homeland. So they were exhempted in lieu of some tax.

Otherwise they were to go on the front and give their life. There was no harm and no killing of the non-Muslims under the control of Muslims. They were never asked to convert to Islam. Please mention these good things of Islam too.

Now about some non-muslim vilalges / cities in the area who were called upon to pay Jizyah (tax of alignment and peace),it was necessary because every one was free to adopt any religion and some of those living there may have become Muslims, it was necessary to protect those few Muslims living amongst the many non-Muslims. So a tax (Jizyah ) was imposed on those non-Muslims co-operators to make them understand their status and so that they do not try to harm the few Muslims living amongst them.

I hope the matter of the Jizyah is now clear to you and all.**

 

[R_not]

It seems that some people certainly know what sharia law means -

Ex-muslims against sharia law.

The group’s leader Iranian born Maryam Namazie has said that fighting Sharia is not racist, but that calling for Sharia is. I have always said that if you want to learn about Islam, just ask an ex-Muslim.

It shows us that no one is reading sharia law, or knows history - current or past - or else they would ban sharia law and if anyone is caught practicing it they would give them the boot out!

 

[planten]

Originally Posted by R_not
so Analyzer and planten are one and the same? did planten get kicked out and come back with a new id?

** It appears that you are haunted by some unholy ghost. None of the above is true.**

 

[R_not]

** Reply is here to your Jizyah only . There was a war imposed on the Muslims. They had to fight back. During that war time it was necessary to differentiate between friend and foe. The non-Muslims could not be called to fight and defend the Muslim homeland. So they were exhempted in lieu of some tax.

Otherwise they were to go on the front and give their life. There was no harm and no killing of the non-Muslims under the control of Muslims. They were never asked to convert to Islam. Please mention these good things of Islam too.

Now about some non-muslim vilalges / cities in the area who were called upon to pay Jizyah (tax of alignment and peace),it was necessary because every one was free to adopt any religion and some of those living there may have become Muslims, it was necessary to protect those few Muslims living amongst the many non-Muslims. So a tax (Jizyah ) was imposed on those non-Muslims co-operators to make them understand their status and so that they do not try to harm the few Muslims living amongst them.

I hope the matter of the Jizyah is now clear to you and all.**

jizya is like a mafia payment to thugs to not kill them. The only one imposing war was mohammed.

muslims have a very strong ‘us verses them’ mentality. It is every muslim’s duty to wage jihad against the non-muslim in the house of war (dar al harb = non-muslim lands not under sharia law) to either kill, convert or subjugate non-muslims. This is the only peace muslims recognize with non-muslims, that they be subjugated and pay the jizya tax. Their goal is to make islam dominate, not necessarily to convert them.

Only Christians and Jews can be subjugated (dhimmi) and IF they pay the jizya tax they can practice their religion. And they must feel humiliated and subdued, per the koran 9:29. If they fail to pay the jizya they can be exiled or put to death. (if they have the world under sharai - there won’t be too many places to be exiled to so they would be put to death). If you are not a Christian or a Jew, you have to either convert or be killed.

dhimmi

 

[planten]

But does the Protestant Bible sanction a tax on Catholics? No. But, Islam’s holy book give three choices to unbelievers: 1) The sword; 2) The infidel tax; or 3) Conversion.

**Sorry, only the second choice is true. That tax is not an infidel tax. That is a levied for being peaceful co-operative people remaining on their own faith.
.
The first choice (sword) is nowhere. You will be surprised. Your bible talks about the swords, about buying the swords even by selling clothes. But there is no mention of the word 'Sword" in the whole Quran. So there is no sword.

Number three choice is also wrong. There is never any conversion or oppression for conversion. Please read your things again carefully. While there may be oppression for conversion in christianity, there is none in Islam.
It is in Quran: “There is no compulsion in religion”. (Verse 2:255) I challenge you to bring anything on that subject from the bible please. You will not be able to produce anything the like of that.**

 

[R_not]

** It appears that you are haunted by some unholy ghost. None of the above is true.**

:heaven:

Howdy! Meet the unholy ghost. I have been called worse by muslims - and others - I will live yet another day!

 

[R_not]

**Sorry, only the second choice is true. The first (sword) is nowhere. You will be surprised. Your bible talks about the swords, about buying the swords even by selling clothes. But there is no mention of the word 'Sword" in the whole Quran. So there is no sword.

Number three choice is also wrong. There is never any conversion or oppression for conversion. Please read your things again carefully. While there may be oppression for conversion in christianity, there is none in Islam.
It is in Quran: “There is no compulsion in religion”. (Verse 2:255) I challenge you to bring anything on that subject from the bible please. You will not be able to produce anything the like of that.**

here is just one example of what is happening in iraq - forced conversions or death

It happens all over the muslim world.

the sword in islam

Another good article going into abrogation and it mentions the sword verse

Abrogation is a reoccurring topic whenever verses of the Koran are discussed. As a rule, later verses counseling Holy War, such the Sword Verse (K 009:005), abrogate earlier verses counseling tolerance and peace, such as K 002:256. The Sword Verse is just one of the 164 Jihad verses listed below. It follows that not many, if any, of the Holy War verses in this list are abrogated.

Basically, the word ‘sword’ is used because that was the main weapon used by muslims at the time of mohammed. muslims adopted other weapons. You could also refer to them as the jihad verses.

The twisting of facts by trying to make subjugation a part of christianity just doesn’t pan out - in fact it is a lame attempt at trying to deflect what islam is all about if one doesn’t convert where sharia law is the law of the land. Subjugation is indeed a part of islam, as is slavery. The two are indeed different, but muslims have no problem with kidnapping non-muslim children and forcing them to be either slaves or force them to convert and marry muslim males.

Forced conversions in Egypt

Forced conversions in Pakistan

Forced conversions in Africa (video)

Basically, the stories abound to prove that there are forced conversions going on. do the searches for yourself.

 

[Angelos]

**
.
The first choice (sword) is nowhere. You will be surprised. Your bible talks about the swords, about buying the swords even by selling clothes. But there is no mention of the word 'Sword" in the whole Quran. So there is no sword.

**

The word Jerusalem (Kuds) is also missing from the Koran! Does this mean there has never been such a place in history? Mohammad must have visited a virtual place in his dream.

A simple question for you: What do the underlined words refer to in the verse below:

Surah 4:102
And when you are among them and keep up the prayer for them, let a party of them stand up with you, and let them take their arms; then when they have prostrated themselves let them go to your rear, and let another party who have not prayed come forward and pray with you, and let them take their precautions and their arms; (for) those who disbelieve desire that you may be careless of your arms and your luggage, so that they may then turn upon you with a sudden united attack, and there is no blame on you, if you are annoyed with rain or if you are sick, that you lay down your arms, and take your precautions; surely Allah has prepared a disgraceful chastisement for the unbelievers.

 

[igator99]

Salaam/peace

so , now u think it’s ok for Christians to bash Islam & Muslims openly ?

Why not? Muslims bash Christians openly.

 

[trustme80]

**
I hope the matter of the Jizyah is now clear to you and all.**

well, this verse made it very clear to me :

قَاتِلُواْ الَّذِينَ لاَ يُؤْمِنُونَ بِاللّهِ وَلاَ بِالْيَوْمِ الآخِرِ وَلاَ يُحَرِّمُونَ مَا حَرَّمَ اللّهُ وَرَسُولُهُ وَلاَ يَدِينُونَ دِينَ الْحَقِّ مِنَ الَّذِينَ أُوتُواْ الْكِتَابَ حَتَّى يُعْطُواْ الْجِزْيَةَ عَن يَدٍ وَهُمْ صَاغِرُونَ
​

al-Tawbah 9:29 :** Fight those who do not believe in Allah, nor in the latter day, nor do they prohibit what Allah and His Apostle have prohibited, nor follow the religion of truth, out of those who have been given the Book, until they pay the tax in acknowledgment of superiority and they are in a state of subjection.**