Islamic prayer

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inJESUS:
Muslim said:
your muslim sister said it is an obligation.
you are more devout because you pray in arabic? what does devout have to do with language? since when does God look for language not the heart to determine if someone is devout?
And why didnt allah reveal the Bible in arabic if it were eternally preserved?
isnt this a contradiction? if i want to pray in any language, it means ANY, not arabic.
coz muslim cannot understand that God is beyond human-invented languages.
because i differentiate between universal God and allah who is the projection of mohammad’s mind, the allah who pops up everytime mohammad has a desire.
i know arabic dont worry…i know many languages and i pray in them all…God is not limited. And me becoming muslim? i know Jesus too well don’t worry 😉
you can do whatever YOU want to… i can go get drunk if I want to…i can go have sex with everyone if i want to… no one is going to stop me. God is not going to stop me…
but on the day of Judgement, thats when my actions will be judged.
and the way WE pray is different than the way YOU pray.
and if you knew Isa-ala-salam that well, you would be a Muslim 🙂
 
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Muslim:
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inJESUS:
why dont you pray in Catholic?
what? will you answer or you don’t have one? why can’t a english speaking person pray in english, if you dont like the hindu language…or isnt it called hindu language?
 
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inJESUS:
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Muslim:
what? will you answer or you don’t have one? why can’t a english speaking person pray in english, if you dont like the hindu language…or isnt it called hindu language?
thats my point… its called sanskrit, not hindu. that shows your knowledge of other things.
and most hindus are indians and they pray in hindi/sanskrit…
 
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Muslim:
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inJESUS:
you can do whatever YOU want to… i can go get drunk if I want to…i can go have sex with everyone if i want to… no one is going to stop me. God is not going to stop me…
but on the day of Judgement, thats when my actions will be judged.
and the way WE pray is different than the way YOU pray.
yes i know, i can pray in all language to an unlimited God and i can look at Him everywhere , not facing the kaaba that was once Jersusalem…

i see you dont have an answer to the question: is God universal or a discriminating arab?

if you dont have an answer, then just say it.
 
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Muslim:
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inJESUS:
thats my point… its called sanskrit, not hindu. that shows your knowledge of other things.
and most hindus are indians and they pray in hindi/sanskrit…
i thought sanskrit had a different name now…thx for the correction, but you could correct me and answer at the same time since you understood my question…even in this you show that you are a literalist who sticks to words not to meaning.

That shows my knowlege of other things? fine, if you dont know arabic, then it shows your knowlege in other things…cool right? 😉

will you answer my question? i replaced hindu (sanskrit) with english.
 
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inJESUS:
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Muslim:
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inJESUS:
yes i know, i can pray in all language to an unlimited God and i can look at Him everywhere , not facing the kaaba that was once Jersusalem…

i see you dont have an answer to the question: is God universal or a discriminating arab?

if you dont have an answer, then just say it.
its a very silly questions, but then again coming from you, its expected. yes God is a discriminating arab thats why in the Qu’ran it is said people were split into different nations and that one day they will come to know each other… and that Prophet Muhammad (pbuh) said many times, an arab is not any superior to a non arab.
 
will you forgive my ignorance now of hindu instead of hindi and adress my answer?
 
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Muslim:
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inJESUS:
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Muslim:
its a very silly questions, but then again coming from you, its expected. yes God is a discriminating arab thats why in the Qu’ran it is said people were split into different nations and that one day they will come to know each other… and that Prophet Muhammad (pbuh) said many times, an arab is not any superior to a non arab.
although this hadith is suspect, from muslims themselves, you still did not answer my question.

If God is universal to all people, why does he prefer arabic? and why didnt he reveal his teachings in arabic for 3000 years?
 
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Muslim:
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inJESUS:
you can do whatever YOU want to… i can go get drunk if I want to…i can go have sex with everyone if i want to… no one is going to stop me. God is not going to stop me…
but on the day of Judgement, thats when my actions will be judged.
and the way WE pray is different than the way YOU pray.
and if you knew Isa-ala-salam that well, you would be a Muslim 🙂
i see you added a sentence…the isa you know is not the historical Jesus…unless you prove the jews, Romans , and Christians wrong, Jesus WAS crucified…dono who isa is…the Jesus i know ( literally) is the risen Jesus .
 
Reuben J:
Originally Posted by freedomm
Isaiah 7:20

**And that’s when the Master will take the razor rented from across the Euphrates–the king of Assyria no less!-and shave the hair off your heads and **genitals, leaving you shamed, exposed, and denuded. **** He’ll shave off your beards while he’s at it.

biblegateway.com/passage…20;&version=65; ]

Brother freedomm, you have repeated this verse a million times already. What exactly do you want to achieve from this so that we can response to you appropriately to satisfy your curiosity or your accusation?
Reuben J:
Reuban J, it was already explained to him a thousand time that these were linguistic idioms denothing punishment and morning and i gave him a different passage showing that shaving hair is a sign of mourning…but he repeated the same post a thousand time…this shows you what level of arguments you expect from someone like Freedom.
Dear Rueben J and inJESUS:

First of all, the verse Isaiah 7:20 is a verse of your Holy Bible, in which you believe as **inspired word of God/Holy Ghost ** to the **infallible writers ** who did not make any mistake

Second, the various amusing translations of this verse that I simply qouted as it is, are translated by your own Church appointed Bible scholars and not non-Christian un-infallible people.

Read this verse in your Douay Rehims, The New American Bible and CEV and The Message Bible and compare all this with Hebrew text because a majority of you have no idea what is in fact in Hebrew and Greek because there is no one agreed version in Hebrew/Greek. Translations are done based on pick-&-choose method to adjust/accomodate your Church’s own views by interjecting foreign ideas into the main text and in the sidenotes of your Bibles.

Check the famous** Trinity verse ** of 1st Epistle of John 5:7 of Douay Rheims Bible ** is still found in your latest New American BIble**, let alone in most Protestant Bibles.

Now, what if one of the explicit verses such as **Isaiah 7:20 ** of your Holy Bible was unfortunately found in the Holy Qur’an, then would you have left Islam and Muslims alone after reading it?

And not to mention the following words “uttered” by Jesus found in your Holy Bibles:

** - hypocrites
  • blind ** guides
  • Blind fools
  • You blind ones
  • full of plunder
  • self-indulged
  • full of dead men’s bones
  • every kind of filth
  • evildoers.
  • the children of those who murdered the prophets
  • serpents
  • brood of vipers-!!!
I repeat my question:

What if one of the explicit verses such as **Isaiah 7:20 ** of your Holy Bible and the above words “uttered” by your version of Jesus, were unfortunately found in the Holy Qur’an, then would you have left Islam and Muslims alone after reading them?
    • -
 
First of all, the verse Isaiah 7:20 is a verse of your Holy Bible, in which you believe as inspired word of God/Holy Ghost to the infallible writers who did not make any mistake

Second, the various amusing translations of this verse that I simply qouted as it is, are translated by your own Church appointed Bible scholars and not non-Christian un-infallible people.

freedomm, you’re really talking insane now. First of all this is completely off the topic of the thread, not that that’s anything new from your posts.

You know what the definition of insane is? Doing the same thing over and over again and expecting something different to happen.
You have been in these forums, spouting exactly these same points and verses, for a long time. The Christian attitude to the Bible and to Holy Scriptures (which is very very different from the Islamic attitude) has been explained to you many many times. You have failed to even attempt to understand it, which you need to do if you want to refute it properly.

As you well know, neither Christians nor Jews believe that even the holiest of books are direct word-for-word and letter-for-letter from God’s mouth to the page. There is no ‘perfect’ ‘original’ version of either the Torah or the Bible, and certainly not the Quran either, close as you may try to come to it. No human could hope to infallibly transmit or record God’s words and thoughts, and I find it blasphemous of Islam to suggest that anyone can.

Let me repeat that - there is NO ‘perfect’ or ‘infallible’ or ‘one-and-only original’ copy of ANY Holy Book - not on earth and certainly not engraved up in heaven. God does not work that way, and never has. The books we have today are ALL human products of human writers and agents (whether Moses, the apostles, Mohammed’s scribes or Uthman) and necessarily imperfect as a result. They all have had and have required to have changes and explanations. Everyone who reads these posts has seen about the so-called Satanic Verses and the suras that Mohammed changed in the Quran, so don’t pretend your Quran is perfect and unchanged either.

And not to mention the following words “uttered” by Jesus found in your Holy Bibles:
  • hypocrites
  • blind guides
  • Blind fools
  • You blind ones
  • full of plunder
  • self-indulged
  • full of dead men’s bones
  • every kind of filth
  • evildoers.
  • the children of those who murdered the prophets
  • serpents
  • brood of vipers-!!!
I repeat my question:

What if one of the explicit verses such as **Isaiah 7:20 ** of your Holy Bible and the above words “uttered” by your version of Jesus, were unfortunately found in the Holy Qur’an, then would you have left Islam and Muslims alone after reading them?

freedomm, you are very clearly neither from a Western nor Christian culture, obviously you see some extra meaning or insult in these phrases that none of the rest of us understand. If you’re going to be on our forum criticising our Holy Book, then at least make an effort to understand the perception we have of it.

They are insults, yes, Jesus insulted people who deserved it - they were his enemies but above all they were offending God by their behaviour. So do you insult people when you think they deserve it, and so do other Muslims. I haven’t read every word of the Quran, but I’m sure Mohammed is equally uncomplimentary about his enemies and the enemies of Allah.

I really do not understand what you’re trying to achieve by quoting large slabs of our Bible to us - as if we don’t already know what is written in it and as if we and our scholars haven’t already been studying it deeply and critically both as religious writing and purely as literature ever since it was written?

You haven’t said anything that is new to us nor had an objection unanswered by us. You are adding nothing new to this forum at all.
 
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freedomm:
Dear Rueben J and inJESUS:

First of all, the verse Isaiah 7:20 is a verse of your Holy Bible, in which you believe as **inspired word of God/Holy Ghost **to the **infallible writers **who did not make any mistake

Second, the various amusing translations of this verse that I simply qouted as it is, are translated by your own Church appointed Bible scholars and not non-Christian un-infallible people.

Read this verse in your Douay Rehims, The New American Bible and CEV and The Message Bible and compare all this with Hebrew text because a majority of you have no idea what is in fact in Hebrew and Greek because there is no one agreed version in Hebrew/Greek. Translations are done based on pick-&-choose method to adjust/accomodate your Church’s own views by interjecting foreign ideas into the main text and in the sidenotes of your Bibles.

Check the famous** Trinity verse **of 1st Epistle of John 5:7 of Douay Rheims Bible is still found in your latest New American BIble, let alone in most Protestant Bibles.

Now, what if one of the explicit verses such as **Isaiah 7:20 **of your Holy Bible was unfortunately found in the Holy Qur’an, then would you have left Islam and Muslims alone after reading it?

And not to mention the following words “uttered” by Jesus found in your Holy Bibles:

- hypocrites

**- blind **guides
- Blind fools
- You blind ones
- full of plunder
- self-indulged
- full of dead men’s bones
- every kind of filth
- evildoers.
- the children of those who murdered the prophets
- serpents

**- brood of vipers-!!! **

I repeat my question:

What if one of the explicit verses such as **Isaiah 7:20 **of your Holy Bible and the above words “uttered” by your version of Jesus, were unfortunately found in the Holy Qur’an, then would you have left Islam and Muslims alone after reading them?

Freedomn:

At the risk of feeding a troll,may I suggest that we Westerners could match culturally-ignorant questions about Christian Scriptures with culturally-ignorant questions about Islamic any day. Try this link on for starters:

forums.catholic-questions.org/showthread.php?t=103348

Obviously I made a generous attempt in that thread to chide a fellow-Christian for doing exactly the sort of thing you are doing here. Nothing is gained by this sort of repetitive reaffirmation of willful ignorance. If you’re going to engage us in dialogue here, engage us in a real dialogue.
 
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LilyM:
As you well know, neither Christians nor Jews believe that even the holiest of books are direct word-for-word and letter-for-letter from God’s mouth to the page.
Dear LilyM:

Unfortunately you don’t know what the majority of Jews believe with ragards to the nature of their Jewish Scriptures. Ask any learned Jewish Rabbi.

My post(s) was basiclly in response to those Christian members of this forum who are attacking Islam by using material from anti-Islam deceptive missionaries sites/books thus they are making fool out of themselves and not realising where their baseless reasoning/logic is heading towards.
 
i dont think this thread needs other explanatory sites…our questions are very basiic and logical…till now the question about the arabic prayer is not adressed. And am still waiting for our discussion of Original sin.
 
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freedomm:
Dear LilyM:

Unfortunately you don’t know what the majority of Jews believe with ragards to the nature of their Jewish Scriptures. Ask any learned Jewish Rabbi.

My post(s) was basiclly in response to those Christian members of this forum who are attacking Islam by using material from anti-Islam deceptive missionaries sites/books thus they are making fool out of themselves and not realising where their baseless reasoning/logic is heading towards.
freedomm, how many rabbis have you actually spoken to? I doubt that they would tell you that the words of the Torah and the prophets are engraved on stone tablets in heaven just as they are in Jewish scriptures, unlike what I’ve been told Muslims believe about the Quran.

And your post was a repeat of things you’ve said many times on many threads - it wasn’t a response to anything on this thread at all, neither did it have anything remotely to do with the topic of the thread. Stick to the thread of the topic or you will get it closed down.
 
cestusdei said:
5 times a day Muslims do salat ie. prayer. It is a highly complex ritual beginning with ablutions ie. wudu. It is formal and must be done properly and in Arabic. It is one of their pillars of faith.

Did you know that the prayer was supposed to be said more than 50x, but Mo bargained with God and hence it is down to 5x? A man bargaining with God? leaves a bitter taste in my mouth.
 
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cleobanzj:
Did you know that the prayer was supposed to be said more than 50x, but Mo bargained with God and hence it is down to 5x? A man bargaining with God? leaves a bitter taste in my mouth.
And God dying for a sin you didnt commit is sweet?

In any case, the Prophet, peace be upon him, asked Allah to decrease the number of prayers per day (following the advise of Moses, who told him his people wouldnt be able to do it).

From the get go it was going to be 5, nothing escapes Allah’s knowledge and Allah does what He wills…but it is meant for us to understand and realize the mercy of Allah. We should be prostrating to him a million times a day, but He only commanded 5.
 
InJesus, may Allah guide you, i will not be responding to any reply from you that insults Allah or His messenger. You can be as critical as you want, but please, when you decide to reply to something, remember that you are a Christian and should act accordingly.
 
No one has yet answered the main point of my thread. If praying exactly as they do in salat is some important how come the quran doesn’t give an illustrated guide? It means the quran is inadequate and that to much importance is given to Muhammed and what he did. This is what leads to the idea that since he married a 9 year old then so can we etc. Muslims should consider that maybe the quran is NOT the answer. Instead of following the word of Muhammed perhaps they should follow the Word of God Jesus Christ.
 
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cestusdei:
No one has yet answered the main point of my thread. If praying exactly as they do in salat is some important how come the quran doesn’t give an illustrated guide? It means the quran is inadequate and that to much importance is given to Muhammed and what he did. This is what leads to the idea that since he married a 9 year old then so can we etc. Muslims should consider that maybe the quran is NOT the answer. Instead of following the word of Muhammed perhaps they should follow the Word of God Jesus Christ.
I understand that your efforts are out of a sincere intention to guide people to what you believe is the truth. But in all honesty, this method will not work. Your claim that the Quran is incomplete because it doesnt give the details of prayer is silly. Allah gave us the Quran, and He also gave us a messenger who was divinly guided…they go hand in hand…message and messenger.
 
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