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BrewMax
Guest
I agree. It bashes Catholics regularly using false allegations and obvious misconceptions. They also bash Anglicans and Othodox Christians the same way.
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Kitty_Chan
Guest
Steve you were wondering about those links you posted meSo I looked at that link, and a couple of items from it:
I object to referring to our Lord as a “spirit person” and Jesus was not a creation, first or other wise. He is Gods Son not “called” the firstborn. As if there would be any others.
- Jesus lived in heaven as a spirit person before he came to earth. He was God’s first creation, and so he is called the “firstborn” Son of God. (Colossians 1:15; Revelation 3:14)
Well, theres some truths in here, but they are mixed. Jesus is perfect thats true, but Hes NOT perfect “just like Adam” Adam was created, Jesus was not, He is the alpha and omega, the first and the last, the great I AM.
- Jesus was a perfect human just like Adam. Unlike Adam, though, Jesus was perfectly obedient to God under even the greatest test. He could therefore sacrifice his perfect human life to pay for Adam’s sin. This is what the Bible refers to as the “ransom.” Adam’s children could thus be released from condemnation to death. All who put their faith in Jesus can have their sins forgiven and receive everlasting life.—1 Timothy 2:5, 6; John 3:16; Romans 5:18, 19.
Jesus was perfectly obedient to God and I suppose it could be called a test, theres truths in that. The reason He is that way, because He honors God, who in turn honors Jesus. And yes faith in Jesus is good, as He said no one goes to the Father but through Me, as I and the Father are one.
Once again, I strongly object to my Lord being referred to as a “spirit creature” He is not a creature, He created so He cannot be a creature.
- Jesus died and was resurrected by God as a spirit creature, and he returned to heaven. (1 Peter 3:18) Since then, God has made him a King. Psalm 37:9-11; Proverbs 2:21, 22
Not even sure about this King thats being referred to, yes Hes a King but Hes also everything more than that.
Im not liking the tone of these things.
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BibleSteve
Guest
(John 10:31-36) Once more the Jews lifted up stones to stone him. 32Jesus replied to them: “I displayed to YOU many fine works from the Father. For which of those works are YOU stoning me?” 33The Jews answered him: “We are stoning you, not for a fine work, but for blasphemy, even because you, although being a man, make yourself a god.” 34*Jesus answered them: “Is it not written in your Law, ‘I said: “YOU are gods”’? 35 If he called ‘gods’ those against whom the word of God came, and yet the Scripture cannot be nullified, 36 do YOU say to me whom the Father sanctified and dispatched into the world, ‘You blaspheme,’ because I said, I am God’s Son?
Was Jesus claiming to be God? or God’s Son?
Who was Jesus referring to as being called “gods”?
Why does the Bible use the word “gods” to describe certain humans?
It’s simply because the word “god” is a title the Bible uses to describe power people, not just an identifier of YHWH, the Almighty God, the Father of Jesus.
And, this charge about JW’s “devaluing” Jesus is again more disinformation. We simply ackwoledge what the Bible says about Jesus. That he himself has someone whom he acknowledges as his own God…
(Revelation 3:12) “‘The one that conquers—I will make him a pillar in the temple of my God, and he will by no means go out [from it] anymore, and** I will write upon him the name of my God **and the name of the city of my God, the new Jerusalem which descends out of heaven from my God, and that new name of mine.
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TraditionalCath
Guest
oh for your information friends, when steve says that the governing body does not endorse eating pizza and drinking beer, that is not so.
i was a witness, and we ate plenty of pizza and my ex father in law drinks beer and he is a witness, so don’t be taken off track here. its not true that the governing body does not endorse pizza or beer. iam quite sure they don’t mind if their disciples drink beer or eat pizza. if they do not endorse it now, then i’d like to see the watchtower or awake magazine or publication that states they do not endorse pizza or beer.
i was a witness, and we ate plenty of pizza and my ex father in law drinks beer and he is a witness, so don’t be taken off track here. its not true that the governing body does not endorse pizza or beer. iam quite sure they don’t mind if their disciples drink beer or eat pizza. if they do not endorse it now, then i’d like to see the watchtower or awake magazine or publication that states they do not endorse pizza or beer.
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Hellisreal
Guest
Maybe bible steve was referring to Muslims objecting to pork sausage pizza and beer.
Or something. The JW’s as far as I know, have never said alcohol is not allowed, they allow it in moderation using prudence I think. I cant see who is against pizza but I am sure there is some group out there that does forbid pizza, I just never heard of them and would be really curious about the reasons why. Unless they were fasting from some ingredient in it for some reason…
I dont know what he meant, if maybe to throw it in for drama, or sarcasm, I dont know.
Or something. The JW’s as far as I know, have never said alcohol is not allowed, they allow it in moderation using prudence I think. I cant see who is against pizza but I am sure there is some group out there that does forbid pizza, I just never heard of them and would be really curious about the reasons why. Unless they were fasting from some ingredient in it for some reason…
I dont know what he meant, if maybe to throw it in for drama, or sarcasm, I dont know.
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BibleSteve
Guest
Apparently, several readers of this thread are confused about the words “endorse” and “prohibit”.
For example, google this phrase: “Tiger Woods endorses”… you will see various products, services, and activities that Tiger Woods has specifically endorsed, placing his name and reputation on it, giving it his highest recommendation, actually SUGGESTING that others partake in this activity, product, or service.
Let’s continue with the example of “pizza and beer”. Does the Catholic Church specifically “endorse” it’s members to eat pizza and beer?. Do they specifically give eating pizza and drinking beer it’s highest recommendation, placing the Church’s name and reputation on it, actually SUGGESTING its members to partake? No, of course not. However, they likely do not “prohibit” it at all. If the Church was asked: “Do you specifically ENDORSE eating pizza and drinking beer?” They would answer no.
Do they have “recommendations” about eating pizza and drinking beer? I’m not sure, but I wouldn’t be surprised some Catholic publication gave recommendations to limit foods likes pizza, beer, greasy fries, etc. in favor of a healthy diet of fruits and vegetables.
Let’s now look at the example in this thread. And let’s take it from the Catholic perspective. Let’s say a group of Catholic laity decided to immerse themselves in research material produced by other religious groups, like JW’s for example.
Now, they choose to meet privately to analyze and debate fundamental truths of the Catholic Church. And then, they setup websites, discussion forums, and produce and distribute publications that question Catholic doctrine and debate with other Catholic members.
Now, how would the Pope or Catholic Church answer:
“Do you specifically ENDORSE your members to do this?”
No, I doubt they would ENDORSE this activity, giving it their highest recommendation, suggesting to their members they engage in that activity.
Do they prohibit it? No
Do they endorse it? No
Do they have recommendations regarding it? Perhaps.
Likely they would recommend that Catholic laity who are interested in learning more about the Bible to immerse themselves in publications specifically produced under the guidance of the Catholic Church, because those publications are the only ones the Church specifically ENDORSES.
The WTS was simply making the same point.
For example, google this phrase: “Tiger Woods endorses”… you will see various products, services, and activities that Tiger Woods has specifically endorsed, placing his name and reputation on it, giving it his highest recommendation, actually SUGGESTING that others partake in this activity, product, or service.
Let’s continue with the example of “pizza and beer”. Does the Catholic Church specifically “endorse” it’s members to eat pizza and beer?. Do they specifically give eating pizza and drinking beer it’s highest recommendation, placing the Church’s name and reputation on it, actually SUGGESTING its members to partake? No, of course not. However, they likely do not “prohibit” it at all. If the Church was asked: “Do you specifically ENDORSE eating pizza and drinking beer?” They would answer no.
Do they have “recommendations” about eating pizza and drinking beer? I’m not sure, but I wouldn’t be surprised some Catholic publication gave recommendations to limit foods likes pizza, beer, greasy fries, etc. in favor of a healthy diet of fruits and vegetables.
Let’s now look at the example in this thread. And let’s take it from the Catholic perspective. Let’s say a group of Catholic laity decided to immerse themselves in research material produced by other religious groups, like JW’s for example.
Now, they choose to meet privately to analyze and debate fundamental truths of the Catholic Church. And then, they setup websites, discussion forums, and produce and distribute publications that question Catholic doctrine and debate with other Catholic members.
Now, how would the Pope or Catholic Church answer:
“Do you specifically ENDORSE your members to do this?”
No, I doubt they would ENDORSE this activity, giving it their highest recommendation, suggesting to their members they engage in that activity.
Do they prohibit it? No
Do they endorse it? No
Do they have recommendations regarding it? Perhaps.
Likely they would recommend that Catholic laity who are interested in learning more about the Bible to immerse themselves in publications specifically produced under the guidance of the Catholic Church, because those publications are the only ones the Church specifically ENDORSES.
The WTS was simply making the same point.
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TraditionalCath
Guest
good to know, but wish that had been clarified firstly.
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BibleSteve
Guest
And, just to add one more point to this discussion about words…
What about “approve”? The dictionary defines this word to mean: “to have or express a **favorable opinion **of”
If asked, how would the Pope answer: “Do you specifically APPROVE of your members reading religious publications from non-Catholic sources, creating their own publications and websites to analyze and debate with other Catholic members over fundamental truths expressed by the Church?”
Would the Pope express a **favorable opinion **about members doing this? Or, would he recommend members focus specifically on publications produced under the guidance of the Catholic Church?
I suspect it would be the latter. And that isn’t surprising, because words like “endorse” and “approve” have specific meanings that are different than “prohibit”.
Once again, the WTS was simply making the same point.
What about “approve”? The dictionary defines this word to mean: “to have or express a **favorable opinion **of”
If asked, how would the Pope answer: “Do you specifically APPROVE of your members reading religious publications from non-Catholic sources, creating their own publications and websites to analyze and debate with other Catholic members over fundamental truths expressed by the Church?”
Would the Pope express a **favorable opinion **about members doing this? Or, would he recommend members focus specifically on publications produced under the guidance of the Catholic Church?
I suspect it would be the latter. And that isn’t surprising, because words like “endorse” and “approve” have specific meanings that are different than “prohibit”.
Once again, the WTS was simply making the same point.
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Hellisreal
Guest
Is this your way of saying that the WTS is admitting they had no part in the bible at all? I mean if you are analyzing non JW stuff, and in this case the non Jw stuff is the bible, then you are admitting that the JWs had no contribution to make in its regard other than taking an existing protestant bible and then altering it?
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BibleSteve
Guest
I’m sorry you are still confused about the question you’ve posed in this thread. I’ve diligently tried to answer it for you several times.
But really, apply yourself just a little bit here and think… was the point of my answer to say the “WTS is admitting they had no part in the Bible?”
I think with just a little though and reasoning you will conclude that was not my point or intention.
Or are you just trying to be clever or sarcastic?
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hosemonkey
Guest
It comes down to this. You, like zerinus, would rather bandy words than answer the tough questions that posters on this forum have asked you. The Watchtower has changed the nature of Christ, the Watchtower has changed the Scriptures to conform to their non-Christian version of theology, the Watchtower has a cult-like world-view and has closed it’s collective mind to the truth. Nobody cares whether or not JWs eat pizza or drink beer. Drinking beer won’t send you to hell nearly as fast as changing scripture and worshipping false gods.
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BibleSteve
Guest
Hosemonkey,
This topic of this thread is an article in Kingdom Ministry regarding the topic of “endorsement”. Along the way, various analogies have been used to help others understand the word “endorse”.
If you’d like to contribute something productive to this conversation, please do.
Otherwise, it is well understood you dislike everything about JW’s, so we’ve got the point,…
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BibleSteve
Guest
Here’s the KM article in question on this thread. Out of curiosity, I’ve replaced the JW words with Catholic words to see how this would read. I’m curious about your question as it would relate to this version of the Question Box:
**Catholic **QUESTION BOX
**Catholic **QUESTION BOX
- Does the Catholic Church endorse * independent groups of **Catholics **who meet together to engage in Scriptural research or debate?–Matt. 24:45, 47.
No, it does not. And yet, in various parts of the world, a few associates of our Church have formed groups to do independent research on Bible-related subjects. Some have pursued an independent group study of Biblical Hebrew and Greek so as to analyze the accuracy of our official Catholic Translations. Others explore scientific subjects related to the Bible. They have created Web sites and chat rooms for the purpose of exchanging and debating their views. They have also held conferences and produced publications to present their findings and to supplement what is provided by the Church at our Masses, through our Cathecism and through our Catholic literature.
Throughout the earth, **Catholics **are receiving ample spiritual instruction and encouragement at **Catholic Church **meetings, assemblies, and conventions, as well as through the publications of The Catholic Church. Under the guidance of **The Holy Ghost **and on the basis of his Word of truth, **The Lord **provides what is needed so that all of **God’s **people may be “fitly united in the same mind and in the same line of thought” and remain “stabilized in the faith.” (1 Cor. 1:10; Col. 2:6, 7) Surely we are grateful for God’s spiritual provisions in these last days. Thus, **The Pope and the Catholic Church **does not endorse any literature, meetings, or Web sites that are not produced or organized under its oversight.–Matt. 24:45-47.
It is commendable for individuals to want to use their thinking ability in support of the good news. However, no personal pursuit should detract from what Jesus Christ is accomplishing through The Catholic Church on earth today. In the first century, the apostle Paul warned about getting involved in exhausting, time-consuming subjects, such as “genealogies, which end up in nothing, but which furnish questions for research rather than a dispensing of anything by God in connection with faith.” (1 Tim. 1:3-7) All Catholics should strive to “shun foolish questionings and genealogies and strife and fights over the Law, for they are unprofitable and futile.”–Titus 3:9.
For those who wish to do extra Bible study and research, we recommend that they explore Catholic publications, such as those that discuss the prophecies found in the Bible books of Daniel, Isaiah, and Revelation. These provide abundant material for Bible study and meditation, whereby we can be "filled with the accurate knowledge of [God’s] will in all wisdom and spiritual comprehension, in order to walk worthily of **The Lord *to the end of fully pleasing him as [we] go on bearing fruit in every good work and increasing in the accurate knowledge of God."–Col. 1:9, 10.
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b_justb
Guest
Wow, this read exactly like some sort of brain washing cult liturture that exchanghed the words for the name of the cult for Catholic. Oh look it is! Imagine that? http://www.coolsmilies.net/wink/sq_tongue1.gif
po18guy
Well-known member
I know my American cars very well. This is not a Ford or Chev, it’s a classic Dodge!!! "Go to another thread!!! See my blog!!! Anything but give an ANSWER. We can give (or find an) answer to every question you raise without resorting to such diversions.
If you have the truth on your side, you will be able to answer our questions plainly, right here. If your “truth” is more complicated than that, is it really the truth?
As at the Transfiguration, it is good that you are here. The truth is slowly being revealed to you. You need be neither strident nor defensive in your presentation, for if it is, indeed, truth, there is great comfort in it. Our purpose is to express that truth which was revealed to our ancestors by God and has been handed on to us over the course of almost 2,000 years.
My Priest can trace his ordination all the way back to one of the Twelve. Your faith has no priests, and dates only to 1800s America, when many strange teachings suddenly popped up.
Anything that does not have a trail of proof that has passed the test of time is an innovation of man. God always leaves evidence, because He sent the evidence.
Plese consider carefully, as your eternal reward or punishment depends on the correct answer.
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Kitty_Chan
Guest
ps Steve when you get a chance post 82 mildly off topic but you did ask for my thoughts.
mildly off topic but you did ask for my thoughts.
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BibleSteve
Guest
Kitty, thanks… Is there an open question on #82 for me? You’ve expression your opinion… which is fine…ps Steve when you get a chance post 82
Are you asking for me to comment on your opinion?
po18guy
Well-known member
Please, no books or other resources-they are evidence only of a differing opinion, and we have already established that. This indicates a search for justification. The most ancient manuscripts are the most reliable and even in those cases, only when translated from the Aramaic which Christ spoke into similarly structured languages. Greek has three genders and this has lead to misunderstandings and misinterpretation.
We pray that the truth be revealed to you. We are completely comfortable where we are. You came here. God sent you for a reason-your salvation. We will bear with your arguments as the One Church has borne with innumerable others for 1977 years. Your soul, beloved by God, deserves nothing less.
Christ’s peace.
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BibleSteve
Guest
There was no question in his post, just a dump of his opinions and complaints about JW’s… which he has provided many times in the past. Kinda like a heckler… and completely off topic for this thread.
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BibleSteve
Guest
You are apparently uninterested in what research is revealing about bias in common Bible translations. And you don’t want to look at any books or other resources.
Do you read Catholic books only? Ever read newspapers, or any other books?
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