Kujo313's Assertions About Catholic Marian Beliefs (Isis!?...Goddess!?)

[kujo313]

MrS:

John 6:66 After this many of his disciples drew back and no longer went about with him.

The placing of the chapter and verse numbers may not be divine…but they sure are ironic at the very least.

Anyone who draws away from the Church …no longer goes about with Him.

They probably went and followed Mary, asking her what should they do next.
It still suprises me that “behold your son” should apply to all believers but yet not one Catholic plucked out their eye or cut off their hand.
Pick and choose which one is to be taken seriously and which one is just a parable.
(Hint: nobody takes out their own eye or cuts off their hand. Mary stayed behind with the rest and followed Jesus.)
If you are offended by this, sorry. But how would you like it if I no longer replied to these rediculous comments and just answered the ones by the woman who birthed you?

 

[kujo313]

DianJo:

Where’s Kujo? He has’t been back to answer any of the great posts y’all have posted.

Y’all are doing such a great job, I really don’t have much to add at this point - it’s been a ball reading Kujo’s posts and everyone trying to get him to understand what we actually believe. It’s such a shame he is so blind, poor thing.

Keep up the good work everybody!

I sleep and work.

Where is everybody from anyway? I’m from Detroit. Im sure some of you has to be from the West Coast.

 

[LilyM]

kujo313:

how would you like it if I no longer replied to these rediculous comments and just answered the ones by the woman who birthed you?

I would like it just fine - she’d probably whup your backside in a debate - better than I could anyways.

How would you like it if I said half of the things about your mother that you have about Mary?

Seriously is there something in your background that makes you think poorly of mothers or women in general?

 

[kujo313]

RyanL:

Just thought I might pipe in and let folks know (1) I’m still around and (2) my wife will ask if she needs more people than me throwing Catholic dogma at her. I think she just wanted us to watch our charity level. (Did I just fail in my last post? It was meant to be funny…)

Oh, and (3) Kujo can’t find a single person (except, perhaps, Helvidius) in the first 1500 years of Christianity who thinks what he does about Mary. You would think that if the Bible taught what Kujo thinks it does, one of the “Reformers”, at least, would have seen it; but nope, they all loved Our Lady and never taught that Jesus disrespected her.

Oh, well, I suppose they just weren’t as good Scripture scholars as Kujo is…right, Kujo? I mean, you are certain that you’re correct, aren’t you? I’d want to be infallibly certain before I started 'dissin the Mother of my Savior…I could scarcely imagine what He would have to say to me if I disrespected His mother without being infallibly certain that I was right…

God Bless,
RyanL

Not disrespect, but to refocus attention to what God had intended all along.

Exodus 20

     3 “You shall have no other gods before Me.

I think HE meant “none” or “zero”. Don’t take my word, I’m not a scholar.
4 “You shall not make for yourself a carved image—any likeness of anything that is in heaven above, or that is in the earth beneath, or that is in the water under the earth;

No statues, no paintings. None that is in Heaven or earth. That makes sense seeing that when we die, no matter what is put in our caskets, it don’t go with us. Don’t take my word, I’m not a scholar.

    5 you shall not bow down to them nor serve them.

Could that mean no bowing down or serving other gods? Don’t take my word, I’m not a scholar.
For I, the LORD your God, am a jealous God,
Jesus said to worship God alone. (Luke 4:7-8; Deuteronomy 6:13)

You want to call it “dissing” Mary but it’s not. It’s changing back your focus to God and God alone.

 

[kujo313]

LilyM:

I would like it just fine - she’d probably whup your backside in a debate - better than I could anyways.

How would you like it if I said half of the things about your mother that you have about Mary?

Seriously is there something in your background that makes you think poorly of mothers or women in general?

I love all mothers. They can do alot of things that men cannot do and go through more pain physically than any man can imagine.
However, we ain’t talking earthly things here. We’re talking about how and what to focus our attention on.
Don’t worry about Mary, worry about hearing the word of God and keeping it. Don’t think of demons fleeing in the name of Jesus. Afterall, Jesus saw Satan fall. Instead, concentrate on getting your name in the Lamb’s Book of Life.

All of this redirecting that Jesus did.

 

[St.Eric]

kujo313:

Not disrespect, but to refocus attention to what God had intended all along.

Exodus 20

     3 “You shall have no other gods before Me.

I think HE meant “none” or “zero”. Don’t take my word, I’m not a scholar.
4 “You shall not make for yourself a carved image—any likeness of anything that is in heaven above, or that is in the earth beneath, or that is in the water under the earth;

No statues, no paintings. None that is in Heaven or earth. That makes sense seeing that when we die, no matter what is put in our caskets, it don’t go with us. Don’t take my word, I’m not a scholar.

    5 you shall not bow down to them nor serve them.

Could that mean no bowing down or serving other gods? Don’t take my word, I’m not a scholar.
For I, the LORD your God, am a jealous God,
Jesus said to worship God alone. (Luke 4:7-8; Deuteronomy 6:13)

You want to call it “dissing” Mary but it’s not. It’s changing back your focus to God and God alone.

And the more acurate translations say “you shall not have any idol/graven image…” Not “carved” the issue here is idolatry and not carvings/paintings/statues- in other words- art.

Kujo, dude- we have beat this dead stinking horse over and over. I am going to leave it up to the others to keep repeating themselves. I think I will unsubscribe from this thread. Have fun folks. And God bless you all- especially the ones that have the fortitude to keep going back and forth with brother Kujo over the same stuff, over, and over, and over, and over…Maybe I just need a break.

 

[LilyM]

St.Eric:

And the more acurate translations say “you shall not have any idol/graven image…” Not “carved” the issue here is idolatry and not carvings/paintings/statues- in other words- art.

Kujo, dude- we have beat this dead stinking horse over and over. I am going to leave it up to the others to keep repeating themselves. I think I will unsubscribe from this thread. Have fun folks. And God bless you all- especially the ones that have the fortitude to keep going back and forth with brother Kujo over the same stuff, over, and over, and over, and over…Maybe I just need a break.

Sounds like a sensible idea St.Eric - there’s only so much :banghead: my poor brain can take.

 

[Nicene]

kujo313:

They probably went and followed Mary, asking her what should they do next.
It still suprises me that “behold your son” should apply to all believers but yet not one Catholic plucked out their eye or cut off their hand.
Pick and choose which one is to be taken seriously and which one is just a parable.
(Hint: nobody takes out their own eye or cuts off their hand. Mary stayed behind with the rest and followed Jesus.)

If you are offended by this, sorry.  But how would you like it if I no longer replied to these rediculous comments and just answered the ones by the woman who birthed you?

No offense but this isn’t a parable:

Mt 18:8: And if your hand or your foot causes you to sin, cut it off and throw it away; it is better for you to enter life maimed or lame than with two hands or two feet to be thrown into the eternal fire.9: And if your eye causes you to sin, pluck it out and throw it away; it is better for you to enter life with one eye than with two eyes to be thrown into the hell of fire.

Jesus is using severe exageration and graphic imagery to drive home his point, (see also Mt 5:29) about the severity of sin.

This is:

23: “Therefore the kingdom of heaven may be compared to a king who wished to settle accounts with his servants.
24: When he began the reckoning, one was brought to him who owed him ten thousand talents;
25: and as he could not pay, his lord ordered him to be sold, with his wife and children and all that he had, and payment to be made.
26: So the servant fell on his knees, imploring him, Lord, have patience with me, and I will pay you everything.' 27: And out of pity for him the lord of that servant released him and forgave him the debt. 28: But that same servant, as he went out, came upon one of his fellow servants who owed him a hundred denarii; and seizing him by the throat he said, Pay what you owe.’
29: So his fellow servant fell down and besought him, Have patience with me, and I will pay you.' 30: He refused and went and put him in prison till he should pay the debt. 31: When his fellow servants saw what had taken place, they were greatly distressed, and they went and reported to their lord all that had taken place. 32: Then his lord summoned him and said to him, You wicked servant! I forgave you all that debt because you besought me;
33: and should not you have had mercy on your fellow servant, as I had mercy on you?’
34: And in anger his lord delivered him to the jailers, till he should pay all his debt.
35: So also my heavenly Father will do to every one of you, if you do not forgive your brother from your heart.”

The other parables are: Mt: 7:24-27, 13:1-9, 13:24-30, 13:31-32, 13:33, 13:44, 13:45-46, 13:47-50, 18:10-14, 20:1-16, 21:28-32, 21:33-46, 22:1-14, 25:1-3, 25:14-30,
Parables specific to Mark not in common with Mt: Mk 4:31-23, 4:26-29.
Parables specific to Luke not in common with Mk and Mt: Lk 7:41-43, 10:25-37, 11:5-13, 12:16-21, 13:6-9, 15:8-10, 15:11-32, 16:1-9, 18:1-8, 18:9-14, 14:15-24, 19:11-27.
The remaineder of the parables in each book cross reference any of the above and are in common with one mentioned.

As well, there are no parables in the Gospel of John. A parable is something that compares two things to illustrate something. i.e. “The kindom is like”, “Faith is like” etc.

You say John 6 concerning the bread of life discourse is a parable. It isn’t. Jesus never uses the terms “My body is like” or “Compare my body to”

In fact John is littered with Truly, Truly, revealing absolute truths by Christ. He doesn’t mince words.

How is it that you claim to be able to discern scripture when you can’t even discern what the parables are? And we are supposed to trust your individual interpretation?

Or is this one of the cases where Christ says the blind shall not see, nor the deaf hear? (Which is probably the case considering the paganistic view you hold of God (Pantheism))

Peace and God Bless
Nicene

 

[kujo313]

St.Eric:

And the more acurate translations say “you shall not have any idol/graven image…” Not “carved” the issue here is idolatry and not carvings/paintings/statues- in other words- art.

Kujo, dude- we have beat this dead stinking horse over and over. I am going to leave it up to the others to keep repeating themselves. I think I will unsubscribe from this thread. Have fun folks. And God bless you all- especially the ones that have the fortitude to keep going back and forth with brother Kujo over the same stuff, over, and over, and over, and over…Maybe I just need a break.

Me, too! I believe that some things are just plain simple when you look at it.
I origionally thought (there I go thinking again) that God wanted us all saved and with HIM. “Fall of man, send Savior, they accept Son, they come to GOD.” If the Bible could be summed up in less than 15 words, that would be it.

Instead, I have human, earthly, fleshy beings telling me “No, HE said THIS and if you don’t believe what we do, you’re going to Hell.”

I hear of a woman that people claim as the Mother of God appearing in windows, bridges and grilled cheese sandwiches. One time, she supposedly “said” that if I wear a scapular when I die that I will not see Hell. Silly me! I was just starting to believe Jesus when He said that He was the ONLY WAY.

THEN I was told that Catholics don’t believe in praying to some one else besides God and they don’t believe in the scapular. But anybody can do a Google search and find otherwise.

I’m tired of that double-speak! I’d rather that we go back to the Bible and the words of Jesus instead of looking into things too far and too much.
(As a step-father, don’t make me analyze and look deep into Joseph.)

 

[Nicene]

I’m tired of that double-speak! I’d rather that we go back to the Bible and the words of Jesus instead of looking into things too far and too much.

You mean like these:

Jn 14;6: Jesus said to him, "I am the way, and the truth, and the life; no one comes to the Father, but by me.

Jn 13:20 Amen, amen, I say to you, whoever receives the one I send receives me, and whoever receives me receives the one who sent me."

John 14:15: "If you love me, you will keep my commandments.
16: And I will pray the Father, and he will give you another Counselor, to be with you for ever,
17: even the Spirit of truth, whom the world cannot receive, because it neither sees him nor knows him; you know him, for he dwells with you, and will be in you.
18: "I will not leave you desolate; I will come to you.

Mt 18:17: And Jesus answered him, "Blessed are you, Simon Bar-Jona! For flesh and blood has not revealed this to you, but my Father who is in heaven.
18: And I tell you, you are Peter, and on this rock I will build my church, and the powers of death shall not prevail against it.
19: I will give you the keys of the kingdom of heaven, and whatever you bind on earth shall be bound in heaven, and whatever you loose on earth shall be loosed in heaven."

Jn 6:53: So Jesus said to them, "Truly, truly, I say to you, unless you eat the flesh of the Son of man and drink his blood, you have no life in you;
54: he who eats my flesh and drinks my blood has eternal life, and I will raise him up at the last day.
55: For my flesh is food indeed, and my blood is drink indeed.
56: He who eats my flesh and drinks my blood abides in me, and I in him.

Lk 24:46: and said to them, “Thus it is written, that the Christ should suffer and on the third day rise from the dead,
47: and that repentance and forgiveness of sins should be preached in his name to all nations, beginning from Jerusalem.
48: You are witnesses of these things.
49: And behold, I send the promise of my Father upon you; but stay in the city, **until you are clothed with power from on high.” **

Jn 20:21: Jesus said to them again, “Peace be with you. As the Father has sent me, even so I send you.”
**22: And when he had said this, he breathed on them, and said to them, “Receive the Holy Spirit.
23: If you forgive the sins of any, they are forgiven; if you retain the sins of any, they are retained.” **

Mt 28:19: Go therefore and make disciples of all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit,
**20: teaching them to observe all that I have commanded you; and lo, I am with you always, to the close of the age." **

Jesus didn’t make it too hard. He gave the Apostles power to baptize, forgive and retain sin, His body in the eucharist, the Promise of the Holy Spirit to be with His church until the end of time.

It doesn’t get much simpler, what he says is quite plain. Unless of course you really don’t believe Christ gave them power, and they in turn other (til the end of time) that his body isn’t real as the eucharist, that your sins can’t be forgiven by them and and make excuses for not believing in any of the above which Jesus says quite openly and plainly.

There are many who turn their backs and walk away because these teachings of Jesus are too hard:

**John 6:66: After this many of his disciples drew back and no longer went about with him.
67: Jesus said to the twelve, “Do you also wish to go away?” **

These are the plain words of Jesus not cloaked in mystery. Baptism, Confession, the Eucharist, Repentance, and One Holy Church.

Go figure, Jesus was a pretty smart guy, he made it simple, then again He is God.

Peace and God Bless
Nicene

 

[Milliardo]

This is something interesting that I have reflected on: anti-Catholics claim the Church made Mary into a goddess; yet we know that to be false. However, their attempts to “show” that has, invariably, actually made Mary at a par with such goddesses. That’s certainly ironic, isn’t it, that it’s anti-Catholics who have made mary into some sort of goddess–the very charge they accuse Catholics make Mary of.

 

[Nicene]

Milliardo:

This is something interesting that I have reflected on: anti-Catholics claim the Church made Mary into a goddess; yet we know that to be false. However, their attempts to “show” that has, invariably, actually made Mary at a par with such goddesses. That’s certainly ironic, isn’t it, that it’s anti-Catholics who have made mary into some sort of goddess–the very charge they accuse Catholics make Mary of.

/nod. If you go looking for a goddess you will find one of your own design. i.e. idolatry.

But if you go seeking God you will find Him instead of looking all over for goddesses.

You are correct: Ironic.

Peace and God Bless
Nicene

 

[kujo313]

Nicene:

You mean like these:

Jn 14;6: Jesus said to him, "I am the way, and the truth, and the life; no one comes to the Father, but by me.

Jn 13:20 Amen, amen, I say to you, whoever receives the one I send receives me, and whoever receives me receives the one who sent me."

John 14:15: "If you love me, you will keep my commandments.
16: And I will pray the Father, and he will give you another Counselor, to be with you for ever,
17: even the Spirit of truth, whom the world cannot receive, because it neither sees him nor knows him; you know him, for he dwells with you, and will be in you.
18: "I will not leave you desolate; I will come to you.

Mt 18:17: And Jesus answered him, "Blessed are you, Simon Bar-Jona! For flesh and blood has not revealed this to you, but my Father who is in heaven.
18: And I tell you, you are Peter, and on this rock I will build my church, and the powers of death shall not prevail against it.
19: I will give you the keys of the kingdom of heaven, and whatever you bind on earth shall be bound in heaven, and whatever you loose on earth shall be loosed in heaven."

Jn 6:53: So Jesus said to them, "Truly, truly, I say to you, unless you eat the flesh of the Son of man and drink his blood, you have no life in you;
54: he who eats my flesh and drinks my blood has eternal life, and I will raise him up at the last day.
55: For my flesh is food indeed, and my blood is drink indeed.
56: He who eats my flesh and drinks my blood abides in me, and I in him.

Lk 24:46: and said to them, “Thus it is written, that the Christ should suffer and on the third day rise from the dead,
47: and that repentance and forgiveness of sins should be preached in his name to all nations, beginning from Jerusalem.
48: You are witnesses of these things.
49: And behold, I send the promise of my Father upon you; but stay in the city, **until you are clothed with power from on high.” **

Jn 20:21: Jesus said to them again, “Peace be with you. As the Father has sent me, even so I send you.”
**22: And when he had said this, he breathed on them, and said to them, “Receive the Holy Spirit.
23: If you forgive the sins of any, they are forgiven; if you retain the sins of any, they are retained.” **

Mt 28:19: Go therefore and make disciples of all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit,
**20: teaching them to observe all that I have commanded you; and lo, I am with you always, to the close of the age." **

Jesus didn’t make it too hard. He gave the Apostles power to baptize, forgive and retain sin, His body in the eucharist, the Promise of the Holy Spirit to be with His church until the end of time.

It doesn’t get much simpler, what he says is quite plain. Unless of course you really don’t believe Christ gave them power, and they in turn other (til the end of time) that his body isn’t real as the eucharist, that your sins can’t be forgiven by them and and make excuses for not believing in any of the above which Jesus says quite openly and plainly.

There are many who turn their backs and walk away because these teachings of Jesus are too hard:

**John 6:66: After this many of his disciples drew back and no longer went about with him.
67: Jesus said to the twelve, “Do you also wish to go away?” **

These are the plain words of Jesus not cloaked in mystery. Baptism, Confession, the Eucharist, Repentance, and One Holy Church.

Go figure, Jesus was a pretty smart guy, he made it simple, then again He is God.

Peace and God Bless
Nicene

Read your response again. It was beautiful. Salvation in all of that! And not ONCE was Mary mentioned. She doesn’t need to be mentioned when it comes to salvation.
Jesus gave ALL believers the power!
Some “protestant” churches, not necessarily the WHOLE denomination, agree with you. But, yet, if they aren’t calling themselves “Catholic” then I guess they’re damned to Hell?

Jesus never said “catholic” and it’s not in the Bible. But “Christian” is in the Bible.

 

[Nicene]

kujo313:

Read your response again. It was beautiful. Salvation in all of that! And not ONCE was Mary mentioned. She doesn’t need to be mentioned when it comes to salvation.
Jesus gave ALL believers the power!
Some “protestant” churches, not necessarily the WHOLE denomination, agree with you. But, yet, if they aren’t calling themselves “Catholic” then I guess they’re damned to Hell?

Jesus never said “catholic” and it’s not in the Bible. But “Christian” is in the Bible.

Read again, those are only the apostles in intimate settings, He didn’t say that on the sermon on the mount. As well concerning the saints. I guess under your theology they are all dead, which makes Christs cross just symbolic and not real. Also read what Paul urges the saints to do.

And can you display anywhere in the above that God granted you the power Christ gave the apostles, to forgive sin “in persona Christi” (Corinthians) or granted you the power, real and tangible power as the apostles have not imaginary, to bind and loose?

Oh well, can’t convince you that people are in heaven with God and Jesus, it’s all a matter of faith. Either you have it or you don’t.

Though as far as pantheism goes it isn’t surprising, pretty much in line with Gaia.

Peace and God Bless
Nicene

 

[kujo313]

/nod. If you go looking for a goddess you will find one of your own design. i.e. idolatry.

But if you go seeking God you will find Him instead of looking all over for goddesses.

You are correct: Ironic.

Peace and God Bless
Nicene

Yet, one of the agendas of JPII and Benedict XVI is to declare Mary as co-Mediator with Jesus. Given that specific title would make Mary a “way” to God and not just a “way” to Jesus. This was mentioned in the June 16, 1997 issue of Time magazine.
Yet, Jesus said that He, Himself, is THE only Way.

Mary as an example, yes. Paul as an example, yes. Peter, yes. Timothy, yes. Stephen, yes.
That guy in Afganistan today who’s facing the death penality just for being a Christian, yes!

All of the above went to God through Jesus. You and I can do the same: to God, through Jesus. We dont have to go through anybody else or listen to anybody else.
Jesus is our ultimate “example”.

I choose to go directly to where I am now, to God, through Him.

 

[kujo313]

Nicene:

Read again, those are only the apostles in intimate settings, He didn’t say that on the sermon on the mount. As well concerning the saints. I guess under your theology they are all dead, which makes Christs cross just symbolic and not real. Also read what Paul urges the saints to do.

And can you display anywhere in the above that God granted you the power Christ gave the apostles, to forgive sin “in persona Christi” (Corinthians) or granted you the power, real and tangible power as the apostles have not imaginary, to bind and loose?

Oh well, can’t convince you that people are in heaven with God and Jesus, it’s all a matter of faith. Either you have it or you don’t.

Though as far as pantheism goes it isn’t surprising, pretty much in line with Gaia.

Peace and God Bless
Nicene

Let’s not focus on who’s in Heaven and who’s not. Instead, there are living people on earth who are on their way to Hell and they need to be saved.
The workers on the Titanic didn’t ask for names of those who were on the lifeboats. Instead, they kept working on getting as many as they could off the sinking ship.
This “ship” is sinking. Let’s get as many people to “safety” (Heaven) as possible.

Focus on that.

 

[Psalm45_9]

kujo313:

All of the above went to God through Jesus. You and I can do the same: to God, through Jesus. We dont have to go through anybody else or listen to anybody else.
Jesus is our ultimate “example”.

I choose to go directly to where I am now, to God, through Him.

I’m having a very rough week, can you please pray for me?

 

[Psalm45_9]

kujo313:

Let’s not focus on who’s in Heaven and who’s not. Instead, there are living people on earth who are on their way to Hell and they need to be saved.
The workers on the Titanic didn’t ask for names of those who were on the lifeboats. Instead, they kept working on getting as many as they could off the sinking ship.
This “ship” is sinking. Let’s get as many people to “safety” (Heaven) as possible.

Focus on that.

Let’s not forget that the people who got off of the sinking ship (the ones in Heaven) are willing to help others get off that sinking ship.

 

[thistle]

kujo313:

Yet, one of the agendas of JPII and Benedict XVI is to declare Mary as co-Mediator with Jesus. Given that specific title would make Mary a “way” to God and not just a “way” to Jesus. This was mentioned in the June 16, 1997 issue of Time magazine.
Yet, Jesus said that He, Himself, is THE only Way.

Mary as an example, yes. Paul as an example, yes. Peter, yes. Timothy, yes. Stephen, yes.
That guy in Afganistan today who’s facing the death penality just for being a Christian, yes!

All of the above went to God through Jesus. You and I can do the same: to God, through Jesus. We dont have to go through anybody else or listen to anybody else.
Jesus is our ultimate “example”.

I choose to go directly to where I am now, to God, through Him.

JESUS IS GOD!!!

 

[Milliardo]

kujo313:

Yet, one of the agendas of JPII and Benedict XVI is to declare Mary as co-Mediator with Jesus.

I hate to belabour the point, but Mary being co-mediator simply means she works with Jesus’ one mediatorship. This is nothing new; we are co-mediators with Christ as well when we pray for one another. What makes Mary’s co-mediatorship different from our co-mediatorship with Christ?

We dont have to go through anybody else or listen to anybody else.

Is this so? If we take this to the logical conclusion then, you don’t need your pastor, since all you ever need is Jesus. Or let’s go a bit further on this point: you don’t need your congregation as well, since all you need is Jesus. So the equation is simply you and the Bible, right?