Lazarus and the Rich Man

[rinnie]

You are right. It is not a good Confession, if we don’t mean to change our ways.

To “repent” is to change direction - to stop doing the bad action, and replace it with its opposite good.

YES, now you are getting it! We could all end up in Hell, just like him, if we don’t repent of our ways and start helping those who are less fortunate than us.

He was worse because he never repented - he never recognized his sins and repented of them.

Nobody ever does, really. Ricardo Montalban, speaking about the villain Khan, once said that Khan did not see himself as a villian - he saw himself as a good man who was forced to do villianous things. But he did not understand that, in doing villainous things, he was turning himself into a villain - he became a villian by doing villianous things. He started out as a loving husband and father, but when he set out to get revenge for the deaths of his wife and children, he became a villian. Ultimately, he was destroyed by his own evil.

The sad thing is that he had the opportunity to become a Saint - a good guy - simply by responding differently, and more generously, to the situation in which he found himself.

All of us are in that situation. We are all faced with choices, in which one way leads to Hell, and the other way leads to Heaven. It is our little everyday choices that lead us to our final destiny.

Sorry you are still not getting it. Can you say that right at this moment you dot have sins you are probally going to die with. What if you don’t even know some of your sins. Did you ever hear about the spliter in your own eye. We all have sins. Do you not see that he did see his sin, and he was repenting. Read what you sent to me or someone did in the CCC. It says it there.

And to me to go to confession and repent and confess you sin is not enough. You must stay in repentance for the rest of your life. IT is a constant thing. To me when we repent we are sorry for our sin, and we ask for forgiveness. And we try to sin no more. That is why we must stay in total repentance. ITs a constant thing. Very few people can stay out of constant repentance. Its hard, its not ask for forgivenss be sorry and you are forgiven. that is not repentance. How can you sin no more. That takes time that is what I call repentance. Its a constant act. That is the way I see it. It takes alot of time. Sin just dont end that easy.

Again can you say that you cannot see any of yourself in the rich man. Ever. in your life. And again what is the name for hell in the OT? Does anyone know? Did you know that if you have mortal sin, but you are not aware of it, that you can be forgiven for it. without confessing it. You can only be held for a mortal sin if you are aware of it. Now if you learn and then you do not confess you are in big trouble.

 

[davidv]

Sorry you are still not getting it.

jmcrae’s comments are completely in line with Church teaching.

Can you say that right at this moment you dot have sins you are probally going to die with. What if you don’t even know some of your sins.

I don’t think we accidently commit sins. If we no longer remember them it is because we’ve purposely forgetten them or are too lazy to remember them. To be in the state of the rich man requires that he have known what was right and have chosen to not do it.

Did you ever hear about the spliter in your own eye. We all have sins. Do you not see that he did see his sin, and he was repenting. Read what you sent to me or someone did in the CCC. It says it there.

And to me to go to confession and repent and confess you sin is not enough.

Why not? If you made a good confession, those past sins are forgiven and forgotten. Obviously, if more sins are committed, repentance is again required.

You must stay in repentance for the rest of your life. IT is a constant thing. To me when we repent we are sorry for our sin, and we ask for forgiveness. And we try to sin no more. That is why we must stay in total repentance. ITs a constant thing. Very few people can stay out of constant repentance. Its hard, its not ask for forgivenss be sorry and you are forgiven. that is not repentance. How can you sin no more. That takes time that is what I call repentance. Its a constant act. That is the way I see it. It takes alot of time. Sin just dont end that easy.

Not only that, we must grow in holiness. This means a lot more than remaining free from sin. It also means that we grow in the practice of the virtues.

Again can you say that you cannot see any of yourself in the rich man. Ever. in your life. And again what is the name for hell in the OT? Does anyone know?** Did you know that if you have mortal sin, but you are not aware of it, that you can be forgiven for it. without confessing it. You can only be held for a mortal sin if you are aware of it.** Now if you learn and then you do not confess you are in big trouble.

Please refer to the CCC for the criteria for mortal sin. Knowledge of an act’s sinfulness is manditory. There are no accidental mortal sins. This makes the two bolded statement appear to contradict each other.

 

[rinnie]

jmcrae’s comments are completely in line with Church teaching.

I don’t think we accidently commit sins. If we no longer remember them it is because we’ve purposely forgetten them or are too lazy to remember them. To be in the state of the rich man requires that he have known what was right and have chosen to not do it.

Why not? If you made a good confession, those past sins are forgiven and forgotten. Obviously, if more sins are committed, repentance is again required.

Not only that, we must grow in holiness. This means a lot more than remaining free from sin. It also means that we grow in the practice of the virtues.

Please refer to the CCC for the criteria for mortal sin. Knowledge of an act’s sinfulness is manditory. There are no accidental mortal sins. This makes the two bolded statement appear to contradict each other./QUOTE

I am sorry David this is what Mortal sin is

Mortal sin must meet ALL of these

1. Its subject must be a grave matter
2. It must be commited with FULL KNOWLEDGE both of the sin and the GRAVITY of the offense.
3. It must be Committed with DELIBRATE and COMPLETE consent enough for it to have been a personal decision to commit the sin.

That is the teachings of the RCC.

Again back to the subject at hand if the rich man knew he was in mortal sin, why did he feel the need to go back and tell his brothers. Easy he did not know, if he knew he was in mortal sin, and did not care one way or another and tried to fool God at the end, his soul would have been in hell. You cannot fool God. God knew he did not understand the extent of his sin, and that is why he was sent to purgatory. Because there is no other answer. He saw Abraham because they were in the same place. The souls in hell will not see the righteous. There are different degrees of suffering in purgatory.

 

[Chaldean_Rite]

davidv;4672893:

j
Again back to the subject at hand if the rich man knew he was in mortal sin, why did he feel the need to go back and tell his brothers. Easy he did not know, if he knew he was in mortal sin, and did not care one way or another and tried to fool God at the end, his soul would have been in hell. You cannot fool God. God knew he did not understand the extent of his sin, and that is why he was sent to purgatory. Because there is no other answer. He saw Abraham because they were in the same place. The souls in hell will not see the righteous. There are different degrees of suffering in purgatory.

To not increase his suffering in Hell because the lifestyle he led is what is probaby going to cause them to be there and hence increae his punishment.

 

[rinnie]

rinnie;4673027:

To not increase his suffering in Hell because the lifestyle he led is what is probaby going to cause them to be there and hence increae his punishment.

What kind of punishment could be worse then being separated from God. Once you are separated from God thats it. There are no degrees in Hell. Hell is eternal pain. How could him saving his brothers help him in hell. Again forever is forever. And hell is hell there is no going back. There is no mercy in hell. If you are in hell you would not show any mercy for another human being. Mercy is a grace from God, In hell there is nothing that has to do with God. Nothing!

 

[Chaldean_Rite]

What kind of punishment could be worse then being separated from God. Once you are separated from God thats it. There are no degrees in Hell. Hell is eternal pain. How could him saving his brothers help him in hell. Again forever is forever. And hell is hell there is no going back. There is no mercy in hell. If you are in hell you would not show any mercy for another human being. Mercy is a grace from God, In hell there is nothing that has to do with God. Nothing!

How terribly wrong are you.

 

[Chaldean_Rite]

newadvent.org/cathen/07207a.htm

Characteristics of the pains of hell

(1) The pains of hell differ in degree according to demerit. This holds true not only of the pain of sense, but also of the pain of loss. A more intense hatred of God, a more vivid consciousness of utter abandonment by Divine goodness, a more restless craving to satisfy the natural desire for beatitude with things external to God, a more acute sense of shame and confusion at the folly of having sought happiness in earthly enjoyment – all this implies as its correlation a more complete and more painful separation from God.
(2) The pains of hell are essentially immutable; there are no temporary intermissions or passing alleviations. A few Fathers and theologians, in particular the poet Prudentius, expressed the opinion that on stated days God grants the damned a certain respite, and that besides this the prayers of the faithful obtain for them other occasional intervals of rest. The Church has never condemned this opinion in express terms. But now theologians are justly unanimous in rejecting it. St. Thomas condemns it severely (In IV Sent., dist. xlv, Q. xxix, cl. 1). [Cf. Merkle, “Die Sabbatruhe in der Hölle” in “Romische Quartalschrift” (1895), 489 sqq.; see also Prudentius.]
However, accidental changes in the pains of hell are not excluded. Thus it may be that the reprobate is sometimes more and sometimes less tormented by his surroundings. Especially after the lastjudgment there will be an accidental increase in punishment; for then the demons will never again be permitted to leave the confines of hell, but will be finally imprisoned for all eternity; and the reprobate souls of men will be tormented by union with their hideous bodies.
(3) Hell is a state of the greatest and most complete misfortune, as is evident from all that has been said. The damned have no joy whatever, and it were better for them if they had not been born (Matthew 26:24). Not long ago Mivart (The Nineteenth Century, Dec., 1892, Febr. and Apr., 1893) advocated the opinion that the pains of the damned would decrease with time and that in the end their lot would not be so extremely sad; that they would finally reach a certain kind of happiness and would prefer existence to annihilation; and although they would still continue to suffer a punishment symbolically described as a fire by the Bible, yet they would hate God no longer, and the most unfortunate among them be happier than many a pauper in this life. It is quite obvious that all this is opposed to Scripture and the teaching of the Church. The articles cited were condemned by the Congregation of the Index and the Holy Office on 14 and 19 July, 1893 (cf. “Civiltà Cattolica”, I, 1893, 672).

 

[rinnie]

newadvent.org/cathen/07207a.htm

Characteristics of the pains of hell

(1) The pains of hell differ in degree according to demerit. This holds true not only of the pain of sense, but also of the pain of loss. A more intense hatred of God, a more vivid consciousness of utter abandonment by Divine goodness, a more restless craving to satisfy the natural desire for beatitude with things external to God, a more acute sense of shame and confusion at the folly of having sought happiness in earthly enjoyment – all this implies as its correlation a more complete and more painful separation from God.
(2) The pains of hell are essentially immutable; there are no temporary intermissions or passing alleviations. A few Fathers and theologians, in particular the poet Prudentius, expressed the opinion that on stated days God grants the damned a certain respite, and that besides this the prayers of the faithful obtain for them other occasional intervals of rest. The Church has never condemned this opinion in express terms. But now theologians are justly unanimous in rejecting it. St. Thomas condemns it severely (In IV Sent., dist. xlv, Q. xxix, cl. 1). [Cf. Merkle, “Die Sabbatruhe in der Hölle” in “Romische Quartalschrift” (1895), 489 sqq.; see also Prudentius.]
However, accidental changes in the pains of hell are not excluded. Thus it may be that the reprobate is sometimes more and sometimes less tormented by his surroundings. Especially after the lastjudgment there will be an accidental increase in punishment; for then the demons will never again be permitted to leave the confines of hell, but will be finally imprisoned for all eternity; and the reprobate souls of men will be tormented by union with their hideous bodies.
(3) Hell is a state of the greatest and most complete misfortune, as is evident from all that has been said. The damned have no joy whatever, and it were better for them if they had not been born (Matthew 26:24). Not long ago Mivart (The Nineteenth Century, Dec., 1892, Febr. and Apr., 1893) advocated the opinion that the pains of the damned would decrease with time and that in the end their lot would not be so extremely sad; that they would finally reach a certain kind of happiness and would prefer existence to annihilation; and although they would still continue to suffer a punishment symbolically described as a fire by the Bible, yet they would hate God no longer, and the most unfortunate among them be happier than many a pauper in this life. It is quite obvious that all this is opposed to Scripture and the teaching of the Church. The articles cited were condemned by the Congregation of the Index and the Holy Office on 14 and 19 July, 1893 (cf. “Civiltà Cattolica”, I, 1893, 672).

I know nothing about stages of hell. I do not believe that the RCC teaches this. I am sorry. I was taught once you turn away from God thats it. I see nothing of what you say in the CCC. If you can show me this is the teaching of the RCC I will accept this teaching. And I will stand to be corrected.

 

[rinnie]

How terribly wrong are you.

ccc Hells principal punishment consists of eternal separation from God in whom man can have the life and hapiness for which he was created and for which he longs.

ccc 1056 Following the example of Christ the Church warns the faithful of the sad and lamentable reality of eternal death also called hell.

I am sorry this is the teachings of my Church, And I do not believe that the teachings of my Church are wrong.

 

[rinnie]

rinnie;4673027:

To not increase his suffering in Hell because the lifestyle he led is what is probaby going to cause them to be there and hence increae his punishment.

Again what kind of punishment could be worse than to be separated from God. How could it get any worse.

Also I do not know how this came up on me saying the quote.

 

[Chaldean_Rite]

you need help my friend. Talk to a priest or someone knowledgeable.

 

[steve_b]

.

We cannot repent after we die.

If you die suddenly, with no chance of repenting of veniel sin committed on this side of eternity, you better be able to repent of veniel sin in the next life or even veniel sin will keep one from entering heaven. One needs to be sorry for sin in order to be forgiven. Purgatory takes care of that

 

[Chaldean_Rite]

If you can show me this is the teaching of the RCC I will accept this teaching. And I will stand to be corrected.

Council of Basel 1431-45 (Council of Florence)

But the souls of those who depart this life in actual mortal sin, or in original sin alone, go down straightaway to hell to be punished, but with unequal pains.

 

[Chaldean_Rite]

If you can show me this is the teaching of the RCC I will accept this teaching. And I will stand to be corrected.

If those in Hell all suffer equally, then God’s Justice has been compromised. Furthermore, we read:

“By what things a man sinneth, by the same also he is tormented” (Wisdom 11:17).

 

[Chaldean_Rite]

With your logic, the demons will not be punished any more when they possess someone because they have “nothing else to lose”. But we know this isn’t the case, at the final judgment, their suffering will INCREASE due to their actions. And what of the thousands of temptations that demons are responsible for? Do those go un-punished as well?

Although they are fully aware of their increased punishment to come, they still do it: **thats how much they hate you.

**But your Guardian Angels loves you more than any demon, even Lucifer, can ever hate you.

 

[mardukm]

Dear brother Steve,

If you die suddenly, with no chance of repenting of veniel sin committed on this side of eternity, you better be able to repent of veniel sin in the next life or even veniel sin will keep one from entering heaven. One needs to be sorry for sin in order to be forgiven. Purgatory takes care of that

IIRC, Latin Catholic doctrine states one does not even need to confess venial sin to a priest. It’s consequence is only temporal punishment, not eternal punishment, and Purgatory by definition remits temporal punishment. According to the Latin doctrine, Purgatory “automatically” removes any evil inclination.in the soul. Further, the doctrine states that the soul in Purgatory cannot to anything for itself. So it could not possibly repent in Purgatory.

Blessings,
Marduk

 

[rinnie]

With your logic, the demons will not be punished any more when they possess someone because they have “nothing else to lose”. But we know this isn’t the case, at the final judgment, their suffering will INCREASE due to their actions. And what of the thousands of temptations that demons are responsible for? Do those go un-punished as well?

Although they are fully aware of their increased punishment to come, they still do it: **thats how much they hate you.

**But your Guardian Angels loves you more than any demon, even Lucifer, can ever hate you.

Tell me. If if you turn away from God totally and will not accept him at all, that means you want nothing to do with God ever. That is why you are in hell. Do you really think the devil is really going to show mercy in hell. Please

 

[rinnie]

Council of Basel 1431-45 (Council of Florence)

But the souls of those who depart this life in actual mortal sin, or in original sin alone, go down straightaway to hell to be punished, but with unequal pains.

If a person is in purgatory it is a temportal Hell. If a person goes to hell it is eternal hell. How could you possible have stages of hell if you are with the devil. Who is going to help you the devil? Yeah right!

If you are in purgatory you are getting getting the final cleansing that the bible talks about. But you still have the prayers of the Angels and Saints and loved ones to help you through that suffering.

If you are in everlasting hell you are separated from the righteous, they cannot help you. You have no love or mercy in your heart for anyone. You are not sorry so you cannot repent, you do not even have the soul to be sorry you are evil, your life was to do evil, people who give their soul to the devil want nothing to do with God ever. Why can you not get this. They know what they did, it was their free will. This is their heaven, Can you not see this, they do not care who they hurt, as long as they can be happy here. They do not believe in God, they do not believe in the life after. They do not care. They give their soul to the devil, and he gives them what they want now, power, money. whatever they need to destroy themself. Then when its time for death, he is theirs. They never will turn away from him, they adore him. do you not get this. They love evil, it makes them feel good to hurt people. There are no stages in the devils house. Just like there are no stages of evil. evil is evil. there is not good evil.

 

[rinnie]

you need help my friend. Talk to a priest or someone knowledgeable.

You tell me I need help. I believe what my Church teaches. You think that once you are in the devils house he is going to treat you according to your sins. I know what my Church teaches. And I do feel my Priest is knowldegeable. Thank-you very much.

Tell me what does this mean

Tobias 12:8 For aims delivereth from death and the same is that which purgeth away sins and maketh to find mercy and life everlaasting.

Since I need so much help, could you please help me then, and explain this to me.

2.peter 1:8 For he that hath not these things with him is blind and graping having forgotten that he was purged from his old sins.

And all the other quotes I did quote before on this site, could you go one by one and explain them to me. Thank-you.

 

[Mickey]

If you die suddenly, with no chance of repenting of veniel sin committed on this side of eternity, you better be able to repent of veniel sin in the next life or even veniel sin will keep one from entering heaven.

God is all merciful, compassionate, forgiving, and loving. But we cannot repent after we die. I will once again post what your catechism states:

CCC 393
It is the *irrevocable *character of their choice, and not a defect in the infinite divine mercy, that makes the angels’ sin unforgivable. "There is no repentance for the angels after their fall, just as there is no repentance for men after death."