Mass, Mahony Style

[paramedicgirl]

Wonder why they have Traffic Cams, Security Cams, Cop Car Cams, and finally, if we only had a VIDEO at OJ’s trial…and every other Jury trial.

Good point. I use my camera phone at every MVA to capture the damage done to the vehicle in the crash so I can show the doctors and nurses exactly what type of MOI (mechanism of injury) the patient sustained. They find the pictures extremely useful, more so than a thousand words, sometimes.

 

[bear06]

If you have a beef with the hierarchy, address it privately to the Vatican as we are told to do.

Where is the teaching that says that. I can assure you that many people have addressed their concerns regarding Mahony. They have gone throught the proper channels and now they are making their concerns known to the laity. This is quite in keeping with canon law.

Whether we like them or not, Jesus told us that we are to be obedient to the leaders put in charge of us. The constant public mockery not only creates greater division, but causes confusion with those outside the Church who already watch us sniping at each other very closely

. We are bound to follow Cardinal Mahony wherever he is in Communion with Rome. We are free to make is public, obstinate error known to the laity as well as the heirarchy. I’m going to disagree with you on this one. We took this tactic with our diocese, the then Cardinal Ratzinger got word to us that this was the tactic to take and that we should let other diocese having trouble to do the same. We had a nice website and we burned all of the abuses on a CD and sent them off to Rome and we were heard. The only difference between us and those is Mahoney’s land is that we didn’t have you tube. We did it the hard way.

Very sad

What’s very sad is that Cardinal Mahony continually condones and promotes abuse in his diocese. If you think that liturgical dancers was the worst thing that happened in that conference, you’d be sadly mistaken.

 

[Michelle2006]

Actually, both denigrate God. Because both acts disobey the legitimate authority of the Church. It seems that you hold appeal to the senses higher than the Law of the Church which is problematic. I know from your other posts that you abide by the laws of the Church, but I really think you ought to be consistent here. Both forms of abuse are deplorable and should be eradicated.

Yes, I said sin. A priest who knowingly (I think we can accurately assume that) abuses the liturgy commits a sin. A priest who knowingly consecrates the Eucharist despite knowing that he is in fact suspended and forbidden from doing so also commits a sin.

You should be consistent in holding priests accountable to the Laws of the Church.

You don’t get it do you? SSPX masses should not be attended because of their status in regards to the church, not because of the *way *they conduct the mass. If there is reconciliation with the SSPX and Rome I think the SSPX mass would remain as it is. If Cardinal Mahony were to follow the mandates of the Holy See, his masses would look very different.

It is the way the NO masses are sometimes conducted that we are talking about here. If I posted a video of the TLM from an indult mass and one from SSPX, it would be hard if not impossible for most people to tell which is which. How then do you expect people to criticize what they see and hear in one and not the other?

 

[bear06]

She said that what with all of the abuses going on in the Roman Church, she will take her chances with the SSPX.

I’m not sure where she lives but in most cases it would be easier to get to a good Mass than an SSPX Mass. In fact, there are still Churches in the City that do them.

 

[paramedicgirl]

Where is the teaching that says that. I can assure you that many people have addressed their concerns regarding Mahony. They have gone throught the proper channels and now they are making their concerns known to the laity. This is quite in keeping with canon law.

. We are bound to follow Cardinal Mahony wherever he is in Communion with Rome. We are free to make is public, obstinate error known to the laity as well as the heirarchy. I’m going to disagree with you on this one. We took this tactic with our diocese, the then Cardinal Ratzinger got word to us that this was the tactic to take and that we should let other diocese having trouble to do the same. We had a nice website and we burned all of the abuses on a CD and sent them off to Rome and we were heard. The only difference between us and those is Mahoney’s land is that we didn’t have you tube. We did it the hard way.

What’s very sad is that Cardinal Mahony continually condones and promotes abuse in his diocese. If you think that liturgical dancers was the worst thing that happened in that conference, you’d be sadly mistaken.

I just have to give you a for that post, bear!

 

[JKirkLVNV]

And then they wonder why the SSPX draws so many to Church.

As bad as this is (and it isn’t representative of most NO masses), you’ll note that the Mass is packed. The SSPX doesn’t draw “so many,” their numbers are very small, except in France. I’d like to see the attendance numbers for this Mass (admittedly a travesty) and compare them to, let’s say, last Sunday’s Mass at all the SSPX chapels in the entire United States. I don’t think the SSPX would be pleased.

 

[paramedicgirl]

As bad as this is (and it isn’t representative of most NO masses), you’ll note that the Mass is packed. The SSPX doesn’t draw “so many,” their numbers are very small, except in France. I’d like to see the attendance numbers for this Mass (admittedly a travesty) and compare them to, let’s say, last Sunday’s Mass at all the SSPX chapels in the entire United States. I don’t think the SSPX would be pleased.

I went to an SSPX Mass in Calgary in November (family obligation-confirmations of two of my sisters) and Bishop Tissier was saying Mass. The Mass was packed. Standing room only. People were even in the doorway. People came from everywhere to be at this Mass, just like they did for the Mahony Mass.

I suppose that’s a comparable situation to the Mass on the video. Both were big events and both drew really big crowds.

 

[JKirkLVNV]

I wish the pope could see the video…

Send it to him! You have the right to do so.

 

[JKirkLVNV]

I went to an SSPX Mass in Calgary in November (family obligation-confirmations of two of my sisters) and Bishop Tissier was saying Mass. The Mass was packed. Standing room only. People were even in the doorway. People came from everywhere to be at this Mass, just like they did for the Mahony Mass.

I suppose that’s a comparable situation to the Mass on the video. Both were big events and both drew really big crowds.

Where was the SSPX mass held? One of their chapels?

 

[bear06]

I just have to give you a for that post, bear!

Thanks, and if anyone would like a way more complete list of where you should send stuff in Rome, PM me and I’ll send it to you.

 

[pnewton]

And those football replays for the referees/Umpires…inbounds or outa bounds.

Thank you for using such a clear-cut, definitive example.

At work, I saw a video once of an arrest in California. The police officer followed the subject who was ignoring him and walking away. It appeared for no reason that he pulled his weapon and shot him several times. The camera was from his own dash cam. The officer was quite fortunate to have another car parked to his left twenty yards. On that dash cam, you could see that plainly that the man had a gun which was blocked from view of the first camera angle, and that he fired it at another officer a couple of times. The officer that shot the subject actually only discharged the last shot.

Then there was the video of Missouri prisoners be mistreated, because the press showed a five second clip. No, in court situation combined with testimony, the actual context of video can be established. The use of video alone has little value to me.

 

[4boysMom]

This is truely sad. I am ashamed to say that I live in Orange County, CA and this happens every year in my neck of the woods. The worst part is all of the Catholic schools in the area require their teachers to attend this conference as well do the parishes.
I wish they would require them to attend the Catholic Family Conference put on by St. Joseph’s Radio. In my opinion the teachers will benefit way more from that one.

 

[bear06]

Aw pnewton, we hardly disagree. There is no need for a second Mass cam. These abuses are VERY typical in this diocese and LA. I was just there a few weeks back while of vacation. They use glass, they pour the Precious Blood, they have dancing girls in and out of Mass (thankfully not at that particular Mass). It’s a bad situation and it was quite similar where I live until the new bishop (for example, the notorious “clown Mass” happened about 4 years ago here). A different camera angle isn’t going to change the fact that RS is being totally ignored here.

 

[paramedicgirl]

Send it to him! You have the right to do so.

And now that I have the addresses, I will.

 

[paramedicgirl]

Where was the SSPX mass held? One of their chapels?

In their church, which holds several hundred people, probably the same size as my NO church.

 

[JKirkLVNV]

In their church, which holds several hundred people, probably the same size as my NO church.

A slightly different venue than the LA arena.

At the SSPX chapel here in LV, “standing room only” would mean that they could sit comfortably in my parish’s school chapel (not the main church).

 

[pnewton]

A different camera angle isn’t going to change the fact that RS is being totally ignored here.

I was speaking to video use in general. Yes, something like glass chalices is pretty easy to spot. I also saw the clown Mass, and that too is pretty bad. But it is not like this is typical of Mass, or could not happen elsewhere. A determined disobedient priest could just as easily don a red rubber nose to say the TLM. The thing is, those disposed to such nonsense don’t say the TLM.

I do wonder why so much of this inane behavior takes place on the west coast. It must be something in the water.

 

[Ham1]

You don’t get it do you? SSPX masses should not be attended because of their status in regards to the church, not because of the *way *they conduct the mass. If there is reconciliation with the SSPX and Rome I think the SSPX mass would remain as it is. If Cardinal Mahony were to follow the mandates of the Holy See, his masses would look very different.

It is the way the NO masses are sometimes conducted that we are talking about here. If I posted a video of the TLM from an indult mass and one from SSPX, it would be hard if not impossible for most people to tell which is which. How then do you expect people to criticize what they see and hear in one and not the other?

You misunderstand me. Both are wrong. Both are disobedient. I get that one looks “more devout” than the other but both are offensive and wrong. I am just saying, let’s be consistent and criticize both as wrong because they are.

 

[paramedicgirl]

No, this particular cathedral gets blasted because it plain ugly.

If +Mahony had built a nice Spanish Mission style church (like the Notre Dame architecural school submitted) or perhaps an Italian baroque or American neo-gothic, no one here would be critizing the cathedral.

Instead, he chose to build “Our Lady, Queen of Concrete” topped by an androgenous representation of the the person who is the very model of feminity.

This is part of its ugliness:
(Please Note: This uploaded content is no longer available.)
To see what else sculptor Robert Graham created go here

 

[JKirkLVNV]

You know, they had the chance to do the same thing in Oakland: there was a plan submitted for a beautiful, California/Spanish Mission style cathedral. But no, they went ultra-mod, with something that looks not unlike San Francisco’s washing machine agitator of a cathedral. Were it not for Bear and Palmas et al, I would start to wonder if there is not something in the water supply out there, at least the water that gets diverted to the seminaries.