Mass, Mahony Style

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JKirkLVNV said:
I agree with the latter part, but I dunno, in Southern California, I don’t think ANYTHING is done or can be done “less expensive.” Plus, I’d bet a lot of the money spent on the ugly Cathedral was from an insurance policy (though I don’t know).
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Technically the budget for the construction should be available to the faithful with full disclosure. People have a right to know how their money is being used or misused.
 
pnewton said:
At the risk of interrupting this angerfest, what does this video have to do with a traditional Mass?
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Also, since I would assume this to be an NO mass, and only about an NO mass, this topic should have been posted in the Liturgy Forums, not the TC forum, inasmuch as this has nothing to do with the TLM or traditionalism. In the Liturgy forums, they don’t bash nor even talk about the TLM there.
 
Ham1 said:
Don’t get me wrong, sending videos of abuse to Rome is a great idea. If the point was to post this video and then have everyone send it to Rome, that would be good also. But it wasn’t. It was posted so we could view and then make negative comments about a very sad situation. What good does that achieve?
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If it was posted with the aim of making the NO look bad and ridiculous via-a-vis the TLM, then I’m afraid the motivation is un-catholic and deplorable.
 
RobedWithLight said:
If it was posted with the aim of making the NO look bad and ridiculous via-a-vis the TLM, then I’m afraid the motivation is un-catholic and deplorable.
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I think that the motivation was to make the litugical abuses going on in this particular NO look bad compared to the TLM.
 
paramedicgirl said:
Take a look at this you tube video. It’s only a few minutes long and it’s of the closing Mass at Mahony’s Religious Conference in LA. Note the liturgical dancing, references to the altar servers as “auxillary bishops,” glass chalices and wicker baskets on the altar.

I wonder if the Pope will get to see this?
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He’s seen worse.

Bishop Fellay from the SSPX has brought some of the far worse Masses in picture form to the Holy Father himself at one of their meetings.

But I have to note the huge similarity between this ‘mass’ and the Masses Pope John Paul II would say in a sports stadium.

For more than two decades the Church has had a Pope that condones and even personally allowed liturgical (and in other countries, pagan) dances into the liturgy, rock music, hand holding/waving/frantic shaking, female altar servers, poorly dressed Eucharistic ministers etc. etc. In his own highly publicized Masses.

I dont think Mahony is really the single person to blame here. Its the new attitude towards Liturgy that has taken root all the way from the parish priest to the old pontiff.

Its times like this were I stop to take a moment and thank god for Pope Benedict XVI. A real liturgist who knows what hes doing.
 
Sobieski said:
I think that the motivation was to make the litugical abuses going on in this particular NO look bad compared to the TLM.
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Well, you are both wrong. The motivation to post this video had to do with the interest I knew it would generate, and I have posted a list of Vatican contacts on my blog so that people who don’t like what is happening in the video can contact the Vatican and express their concerns to get these liturgical abuses stopped. It is Masses like these that give the Novus Ordo a bad name.

Sorry guys, but it really has nothing to do with a side by side comparison of the TLM.
 
paramedicgirl said:
Well, you are both wrong. The motivation to post this video had to do with the interest I knew it would generate, and I have posted a list of Vatican contacts on my blog so that people who don’t like what is happening in the video can contact the Vatican and express their concerns to get these liturgical abuses stopped. It is Masses like these that give the Novus Ordo a bad name.

Sorry guys, it but it really has nothing to do with a side by side comparison of the TLM.
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Paramedic Girl and I go round and round about the SSPX and the TLM vs. the NO, but she’s innocent of attempting a comparison of the two in this regard. Everyone knows that this liturgy is always over the top and rife with abuse.
 
Missa_Solemnis said:
He’s seen worse.

Bishop Fellay from the SSPX has brought some of the far worse Masses in picture form to the Holy Father himself at one of their meetings.

But I have to note the huge similarity between this ‘mass’ and the Masses Pope John Paul II would say in a sports stadium.

For more than two decades the Church has had a Pope that condones and even personally allowed liturgical (and in other countries, pagan) dances into the liturgy, rock music, hand holding/waving/frantic shaking, female altar servers, poorly dressed Eucharistic ministers etc. etc. In his own highly publicized Masses.

I dont think Mahony is really the single person to blame here. Its the new attitude towards Liturgy that has taken root all the way from the parish priest to the old pontiff.

Its times like this were I stop to take a moment and thank god for Pope Benedict XVI. A real liturgist who knows what hes doing.
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OK, I’ve got to laugh because I don’t remember World Youth Day looking any different under Pope Benedict than it did under Pope John Paul.

And, by the way, it was Pope John Paul who saw the abuses in our diocese via a point and click CD that some people put together and appointed our new bishop. And, I’ve got to say, if Bishop Fellay’s tactics are similar to, say, novusordowatch then I wouldn’t at all trust them if I were the Holy Father. I’ve seen more than one so-called “traditionalist site” that told outright lies about even some orthodox bishops as well as some liberal ones. 😦
 
Sobieski said:
I think that the motivation was to make the litugical abuses going on in this particular NO look bad compared to the TLM.
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What then is the point? That one is better than the other? Are we to perpetually endure recycled threads that show how superior, how reverent “ours” is than “theirs”?

While there are indeed abuses and it is quite obvious in the video, a better and more catholic way to address this issue is to send videos of these abuses to Rome and let them decide on this matter instead of making us endure another round of liturgical polemics.
 
bear06 said:
OK, I’ve got to laugh because I don’t remember World Youth Day looking any different under Pope Benedict than it did under Pope John Paul.

And, by the way, it was Pope John Paul who saw the abuses in our diocese via a point and click CD that some people put together and appointed our new bishop. And, I’ve got to say, if Bishop Fellay’s tactics are similar to, say, novusordowatch then I wouldn’t at all trust them if I were the Holy Father. I’ve seen more than one so-called “traditionalist site” that told outright lies about even some orthodox bishops as well as some liberal ones. 😦
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I wouldn’t have been able to read the young man’s post if you hadn’t quoted him, Bear, since I’ve got him on ignore. Absolute rubbish! Can’t get it into his noggin that virtually all of those masses in stadiums were the province of local bishops’ conferences, NOT the Holy Father (for instance, the bare-chested New Guinean lady). And if you’re going to thank God for Pope Benedict XVI, you’d better give thanks for the Servant of God, Pope John Paul the Great, who kept him by his side all those years. These teenagers who presume to sit in judgement of the Holy Father!
 
I dont really agree with all the tactics used by the SSPX, and not at all with those used by the Sedevacantist groups. But you all have to admit that if it wasnt for these Masses- rank with Liturgical abuse, innovations, and some honestly bizarre things- the SSPX and others wouldnt have any material to work with. They arent pulling their criticisms out of thin air.

And in regards to the Papal Masses at World Youth Day and other events, I was under the impression that it was the local organizers, not the Holy Father himself, who put togather these Masses. I have always found the Masses in Vatican City to be quite reverant, and from what I have heard that has increased since the election of Pope Benedict.
 
RobedWithLight said:
What then is the point? That one is better than the other? Are we to perpetually endure recycled threads that show how superior, how reverent “ours” is than “theirs”?

While there are indeed abuses and it is quite obvious in the video, a better and more catholic way to address this issue is to send videos of these abuses to Rome and let them decide on this matter instead of making us endure another round of liturgical polemics.
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You must have missed some very relevant posts in this thread. That is exactly the intention, and if you go back and read, you will see that it has been covered already. And there is an avenue to express those concerns to Rome in place.
 
paramedicgirl said:
You must have missed some very relevant posts in this thread. That is exactly the intention, and if you go back and read, you will see that it has been covered already. And there is an avenue to express those concerns to Rome in place.
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Read before you post is one of my mottos Paramedic Girl. Another one is read what I posted, not what you think I posted. I get a lot of that too.

You’re absolutely right not only to post this, but also to give information on who to contact in the Vatican.

Anti-Tridentine posters get very defensive when you show abuses in the Novus Ordo Mass.
 
Swiss_Guard said:
Read before you post is one of my mottos Paramedic Girl. Another one is read what I posted, not what you think I posted. I get a lot of that too.

You’re absolutely right not only to post this, but also to give information on who to contact in the Vatican.

Anti-Tridentine posters get very defensive when you show abuses in the Novus Ordo Mass.
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Thanks! I like your mottos BTW. Especially the second one. 😉
 
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