Pope Francis donates $500,000 to migrants at US border

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billsherman said:
I think, and I am clearly brainwashed so I might be wrong, that you are saying that helping migrants is supporting state power to do immoral things. If you are in fact saying that, you can’t possibly be more wrong in your interpretation of Jesus’ message. The Church is extremely clear that caring for migrants is a moral necessity.
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Yes this is a narrow interpretation of what was said.
 
Thank you for answering. I agree that asylum does not fix the underlying problems that lead to migration. I am just trying to see if there is a way to protect innocents while preserving families until a way to fix their home countries Can be found.
 
billsherman said:
Every time you draw a line and place someone else on the other side (rich v. poor, citizen v. migrant, white v. black, etc.), Jesus is on the other side of the line. He is with those less fortunate, not over here with us.
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This is exactly what the Left side of politics does with its victim and identity politics.

Where we can have a discussion is whether Jesus is always with the less fortunate.
That is clearly wrong. This feeds into the worst side of the Left’s identity politics to make oppression a virtue. To clamour for oppression and then turn the table under a new manufactured morality where victim status gives you the right to take from other people.

This is the clear evil of western history since the bloodbath of the French Revolution.
 
13pollitos said:
Thank you for answering. I agree that asylum does not fix the underlying problems that lead to migration. I am just trying to see if there is a way to protect innocents while preserving families until a way to fix their home countries Can be found.
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I don’t think you protect innocents by luring them on dangerous paths by people smugglers in an attempt to take wealth from others.

We can have a serious discussion on economic development. I don’t know if ‘fix’ is the right word in the context of it being once ‘ok’ but now broken.

If we are going to talk development then we are talking about historical Europe and the United States etc, and Japan and South Korea. We are going to have to talk about defining and supporting capitalism.

This is a worthwhile discussion but capitalism takes time. It is about creating and fostering a nation of people creating wealth This takes time though.

The other ideology is to take from others. This is not only wrong but destructive of both the economy and culture. This is where I think many in my church go wrong. I live in the Philippines where we have a taking culture instead of a making culture. Despite socialist history the West was not made great by taking but by making.

Reliance on mass migration is a nod to trying to solve problems by taking from others. It does not work in my opinion but makes things worse.

Migration to other nations has been good to Philippinos but we can’t force our way there disrespecting other people. We have to be invited and accepted and if it is beneficial to both parties involved.

That is Jesus.
 
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I’ve thought more about this since the news broke and I’ve changed my mind. The Church SHOULD help the needy in any way it can. As an american who has a stake in this issue I was at first, annoyed that it seemed to be a political move opposite of my ideology. And to be honest it could be. But I also am of the opinion that countries and organizations other than the US should be held accountable for this situation. Technically though the Pope should donate another 500,000 dollars to US Churches because this is where millions of these immigrants end up. So here’s to hoping the Pope sees fit to help out those who need it regardless of a border. If Tijuana gets some money so should the Churches in San Diego.
 
Thank you for fostering! Not many experiences are as beautiful as making a positive impact in a child’s life.
billsherman said:
But you need to start with actually loving and welcoming them.
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As you said, there are many ways to do that. What makes one way better than another?

I believe that anyone who is here in the US should be treated just like anyone else. That does not mean that some have not broken laws by coming here and Can be prosecuted for that. My husband knew that la migra could come and get him and he knew that it was justice if it happened. If he broke any other law it would not have been unjust or unloving to give him whatever penalty it deserved. He was welcomed by having a country that opened housing, medical care, police protection, etc to him just as they do for everyone. He was loved by the Church and community that offered support in various ways. It should not be discounted that once a person is in the US, not many services can be withheld based on immigration/citizenship status. When I became a naturalized citizen basically the only thing that changed in my life was being allowed to vote. When my husband went from illegal immigrant to resident, he is adamant that the only thing that changed for him was that he no longer needed to feel guilty about lying to employers. So how do you explain that is it’s not welcoming?

I really am trying to understand and not just be difficult. I truly believe that if we find understanding, progress towards a real solution will be found. I want to help people in Latin America find a way to improve their lives that doesn’t require abandoning homes, cultures, and family. Maybe it has something to do with the fact that I saw my parents suffer after leaving Bolivia and us younger kids adapt to a way of life that made it impossible for them to bring us back home. Asking immigrants to keep their culture is impossible, but asking them to give it up is immoral.
 
Perhaps His Holiness should confer with his dear friend, ++Cardinal Maridaiga and see what they could do to stem the issues forcing Guatemalans to abandon their native country and travel over a thousand miles to immigrate into the US, legally or otherwise.
 
Are you being serious or is this an attempt at humor?

Look, I know many people aren’t able to move past political persuasions and that is my main stumbling block when it comes to this donation. It feeds the political beast! It’s especially hard for me knowing the way a donation like this has a tendency to make problems in Latin America and knowing how the pope has criticized the Mexican church. The priests in Mexico already have a price on their heads. Why increase the likelihood of them either falling prey (more than two dozen have died 2012!) to the cartels or feeding the cartels with bribes? It is a very unfortunate situation there for the priests. And there hasn’t been much support for them from the pope up until now. It just doesn’t sit right with me.

http://m.ncregister.com/daily-news/why-is-mexico-the-deadliest-place-to-be-a-priest
 
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This is an interesting article that I found. I just finished reading it and it sums up my fears pretty well. These aren’t just cynical thoughts based on a like or dislike of one side or another. It is unfortunate reality that Latin America is a land of corruption that hates anything that works overcome.

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Thanks for the terrible news regarding Mexico.

I am guessing the priests killed are the good ones standing up to evil.

In the Philippines too people are killed if they speak out against certain politicians.

Politics is a family business here and speaking out against corruption is viewed as an attack on political family groups.

When violence takes root it is difficult to escape from it. This demonstrates the importance of culture.

I think many people in Western countries understandably are not aware of the cultures they have which prevent this mindset. Sometimes importing foreign cultures is a bad thing.

At the least mass migration should not be foistered on people without their full understanding and acceptance IMHO.
 
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Also, I’d fully support the Pope donating to a defense department in the USA and then using that military to defeat horrific murderous corrupt governments in South America and central america.
 
billsherman said:
Fair enough. But you need to start with actually loving and welcoming them. There is precious little of that going on in this forum. All excuses have to be dropped. Then you can begin.
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I hope somebody proves me wrong here, but I’m starting to wonder if these immigrants and asylees are truly being viewed as “the least of these.”

The cynicism I’m seeing in this thread is approaching all-out toxicity. The Pope is donating “not enough” and “just for political motives.” The donation “will never get to the people.” The asylees are just “lawbreakers” who are “taking advantage” or “committing fraud.”

But Christ calls us to charity, not cynicism. Besides you @billsherman who else participating or lurking in this discussion is doing anything - anything!! - for these people camped out at the border? Is anyone sending monetary or in-kind donations?

Somebody mentioned a need to help the U.S. side of the border, too. Donating to a Catholic Charities branch in a border town would be a great place to start. :: RespiteCenter ::

If not donations, what about prayer? How many here have prayed for them? If you haven’t already, would you be willing to drop what you’re doing right now and do so?
 
Lots of people are. Many of my students over the years have been illegal immigrants. We send clothing and shoes as well as toys and household items directly to people that live in three different countries that are then distributed throughout their towns. We have an open door to anyone and everyone at our own personal home in case someone needs a place to stay. To say that people who are pointing out real problems are being cynical is blatantly false. Having concerns based on reality is not the same as hating or not showing love. It is very possible to care for people while still seeking a better way.
 
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This was probably the last straw for me. All the recent scandals of the Church, along with this apparently marxist pope who is now making me choose between my country and my church has me seriously investigating the Eastern Orthodox Church as an alternative.

I think I’m done.
 
What makes you think you need to choose between church and country? If you could expand on this, i would like to understand. I do realize how ugly things can turn on this so if you aren’t comfortable doing so I understand. Either way I will pray for God to light the path to where He wants you. Please pray for me as well
 
It would be even better if our faith was not political and our politics weren’t stuck toeing the party line.
 
You asked me in another thread to stop debating this issue, so why do you keep responding to my posts to debate them?

I see it as Gospel kindness, you see it as “political.” I get it. Can we move on?
 
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