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kctigerhawk
Guest
Read the article and this Gordon Keller guy reminded me of another scientist with about the same respect for human life.
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Josef_Mengele
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astegallrnc
Guest
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Dr_Paul
Guest
It becomes a human life when is aquires the status as a totipotent cell. In other words, a cell that has EVERYTHING that is necessary to develop into a fully developed baby if allowed the proper environment.
Your donated kidney is not totipotent. It cannot develop into a new human being.
An embryo is an early developing organism. A human embryo is an early developing human being. Until recently, the only possible way to obtain an embryo was through fertilization. With SCTN, there is now another way.
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kctigerhawk
Guest
Bumping this to the top.
Have you prayed for the defeat of Amendment 2 today?
Thanks for your contribution Dr Paul.
Have you prayed for the defeat of Amendment 2 today?
Thanks for your contribution Dr Paul.
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maggieodae
Guest
yes! And for the defeat of the thugs who are stealing and trashing my signs too. Just about everyone who has put up a sign to VOTE NO has had the signs stolen night after night. Now we have to put them out in the daytime and take them in before nightfall to keep the thugs from trashing our yard and signs.
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astegallrnc
Guest
Yes, thank you Dr Paul for your reply.
maggieodae that must be so frustrating! There are Vote No signs everywhere and no one seems to bother them… so far. Even my non-Catholic in-laws have a sign in their yard.
If you haven’t read the it here is Amendment 2 (it is a short read)
sos.mo.gov/elections/2006…ppStemCell.asp
And an analysis of it (15 pages)
moroundtable.org/index.html
maggieodae that must be so frustrating! There are Vote No signs everywhere and no one seems to bother them… so far. Even my non-Catholic in-laws have a sign in their yard.
If you haven’t read the it here is Amendment 2 (it is a short read)
sos.mo.gov/elections/2006…ppStemCell.asp
And an analysis of it (15 pages)
moroundtable.org/index.html
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maggieodae
Guest
I am frustrated but determined!
I added this to my signs this morning!
[SIGN]
**~Smile ~
You are on Candid Camera
Tampering with my signs will win you
A $2500 Fine
A year in jail.**[/SIGN]
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astegallrnc
Guest
I am frustrated but determined!
Some of the stealing and trashing may be Halloween pranks, so maybe it will settle down soon. Ok, I am being optimistic.
Love your sign additions.
I can’t believe we vote next Tuesday. Not much time left.
Autumn
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maggieodae
Guest
nope! Here in the city it is dead serious tampering. Only our No Amendment 2 signs and Talent signs get trashed. Some people have videoed the perpatrators and they are NOT kids having fun.Some of the stealing and trashing may be Halloween pranks, so maybe it will settle down soon. Ok, I am being optimistic.
Love your sign additions.
I can’t believe we vote next Tuesday. Not much time left.
Autumn
My terrorist are grown ups. Trust Me! Tonight the hose is set to turn on when they step into my yard. And if need be…pepper spray and a bull horn will be used. I’m fighting mad and not going to take the tampering any more.
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Rosalinda
Guest
KCtigerhawk posted
The Missouri initiative makes the same provision.
Note how he used “donated embryos” as if any parent has a right to do this to their offspring. Dr. Gleicher said:
telegraph.co.uk/news/main.jhtml?xml=/news/2003/07/03/wfert03.xml
Yes, I did read that. You might be interested to read about this prestigious American doctor owner of a fertility clinic for more than 25 years. In 2003 it was reported that Dr. Norbert Gleicher inserted cells from 3 day old male embryos into 21 female embryos who were also 3 days old. He waited another 3 days before killing them to see the results. Twelve of the surviving embryos showed a mosaic distribution of both male and female cells resulting in hermaphrodites. Ammendment 2 does not explicitly prohibit the creation of chimeras. These type of experiments which totally degrade human beings to the status of building blocks for grown-up kids in their laboratories will have no controls. By the way, this research went through an ethics committee, to an institutional review board, before it was conducted.
The Missouri initiative makes the same provision.Note how he used “donated embryos” as if any parent has a right to do this to their offspring. Dr. Gleicher said:
Further note, after he had experimented on humans in the most disturbingly grotesque fashion he is now considering doing this to animals. I always thought animal research was mandatory before human trials.
telegraph.co.uk/news/main.jhtml?xml=/news/2003/07/03/wfert03.xml
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aurora77
Guest
Yep, we prayed today and will keep praying. I got this prayer from church this afternoon and wanted to share it with you all:
O Most Blessed Virgin Mary, Mother of Mercy, at this most critical time, we entrust the State of Missouri to your loving care. The forces that surround us no longer acknowledge our Heavenly Father as the Creator of Life. Most Holy Mother, we beg you to look down with mercy upon us and touch the hearts of our people. Open our minds to the great sanctity of human life and to the responsibilities that accompany human freedom. Free us from the falsehoods that lead to the evils of human cloning and embyonic stem cell research. Grant us the wisdom to proclaim that God’s law is the foundation on which this nation was founded, and that He alone is the True Source of our cherished rights to life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness. O Merciful Mother obtain for us the grace to reject the culture of death and the courage to build a new Culture of Life. Amen.
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wisdom34
Guest
I am sure many catholics will support amendment 2. I am sure they are hopeful that their vote will probably will result in cures of devastating diseases.
your insinuation that it is a culture of death goes too far.
In terms of insinuating there are no cures yet from stem cell research is like telling Fleming to stop working with his fungi because, prior to him, no antibiotic were made from fungi.
your insinuation that it is a culture of death goes too far.
In terms of insinuating there are no cures yet from stem cell research is like telling Fleming to stop working with his fungi because, prior to him, no antibiotic were made from fungi.
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maggieodae
Guest
Be sure to watch The O’Reilly Factor tonight, Monday, October 30, 2006, 8pm ET, 7pm Central.
Bill O’Reilly and his guests will expose what’s really behind Missouri Amendment 2 – the deceptive ballot initiative that is the pilot project for biotech special interests to sneak human cloning experiments into your State. But the deception is being consistently exposed, and support for tricky Amendment 2 is dropping like a rock. But will it be enough to defeat $28 million spin campaign?
Bill O’Reilly and his guests will expose what’s really behind Missouri Amendment 2 – the deceptive ballot initiative that is the pilot project for biotech special interests to sneak human cloning experiments into your State. But the deception is being consistently exposed, and support for tricky Amendment 2 is dropping like a rock. But will it be enough to defeat $28 million spin campaign?
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Lorik
Guest
There is a huge differece between fungi and a human embryo.
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Rosalinda
Guest
Wisdom34 makes the accusation:[sign]your insinuation that it is a culture of death goes too far.
In terms of insinuating there are **no cures yet from stem cell research **is like telling Fleming to stop working with his fungi because, prior to him, no antibiotic were made from fungi[/sign]
Yes, there will be Catholics voting for Ammendment 2 who sincerely believe they are doing something good. Even so, they will be sincerely wrong and their compassion will be misguided. Furthermore, Catholics are not against the aggressive pursuit of cures when the stem cells in question have been harvested from adult stem cells, the placenta or umbilical cords. The strong objections, not mere “insinuations”, coming from the pro-life community is because the culture of death wants to deliberately create millions of tiny, defenseless, vulnerable, innocent human embryos with the intention to deprive them of life so that others may benefit.
Contrary to what you have suggested, neither Fleming nor any responsible scientist would countenance killing one of his patients/subjects to benefit another. It is wrong to discriminate against an entire community of persons because of their race, creed, intelligence or, as is the case here, their size. Finally, embryos whether created sexually or asexually (reproduced without fertilization by a sperm) are members of the human race. They are no more the equivalent of fungus in their biological or ontological nature than are babies, children or adults. The continuum of life begins with the single cell zygote however it came into existence. This is not a matter of opinion or religious belief. Rather it is an objective, scientific fact recognized and defined as such by human embryologists.
One last point, Catholics can be forgiven for feeling confused and overwhelmed by the complexity of this debate but there does come a time when we have a moral duty not to ignore the issue but to make a serious effort to understand. There is such a thing as being culpably ignorant. :banghead: Kindly take the time to do some serious research, maybe follow a few of the suggested hyperlinks, and if you have any serious questions we would gladly attempt to answer them.
In terms of insinuating there are **no cures yet from stem cell research **is like telling Fleming to stop working with his fungi because, prior to him, no antibiotic were made from fungi[/sign]
Yes, there will be Catholics voting for Ammendment 2 who sincerely believe they are doing something good. Even so, they will be sincerely wrong and their compassion will be misguided. Furthermore, Catholics are not against the aggressive pursuit of cures when the stem cells in question have been harvested from adult stem cells, the placenta or umbilical cords. The strong objections, not mere “insinuations”, coming from the pro-life community is because the culture of death wants to deliberately create millions of tiny, defenseless, vulnerable, innocent human embryos with the intention to deprive them of life so that others may benefit.
Contrary to what you have suggested, neither Fleming nor any responsible scientist would countenance killing one of his patients/subjects to benefit another. It is wrong to discriminate against an entire community of persons because of their race, creed, intelligence or, as is the case here, their size. Finally, embryos whether created sexually or asexually (reproduced without fertilization by a sperm) are members of the human race. They are no more the equivalent of fungus in their biological or ontological nature than are babies, children or adults. The continuum of life begins with the single cell zygote however it came into existence. This is not a matter of opinion or religious belief. Rather it is an objective, scientific fact recognized and defined as such by human embryologists.
One last point, Catholics can be forgiven for feeling confused and overwhelmed by the complexity of this debate but there does come a time when we have a moral duty not to ignore the issue but to make a serious effort to understand. There is such a thing as being culpably ignorant. :banghead: Kindly take the time to do some serious research, maybe follow a few of the suggested hyperlinks, and if you have any serious questions we would gladly attempt to answer them.
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kctigerhawk
Guest
Rosalinda did a very nice job of answering you.
However, I would like to add that human embryos are human beings and destroying them destroys the tinyest and most innocent of human life. If that is not part of the culture of death, nothing is.
And to followup on what Lorik said, if you want to compare human beings to fungus that is your business, however don’t expect to find much support for that view here.
I urge all Catholics to read the amendment. Learn the Catholic teaching that applies to the amendment, and vote accordingly.
Many links have been posted that make this a no-brainer for any faithful Catholic.
I urge you and anyone that believes there is any shred of good in this amendment to education yourself. You have been deceived.
Finally, no one claims there are no cures from stem cells. There are currently dozens of cures available from the use of adult stem cells and there are potentially dozens if not hundreds of more cures that could come from them. Adult stem cell research is a very good thing and should be encouraged.
It is the barbaric destruction of human embryonic life for scientific experimentation that is to be rejected. Any cure found through embryonic stem cell research (currently none) will be at too high of a price. The ends do not justify the means. If you disagree, again educate yourself, you are out of step with the teaching of the Catholic Church.
I have been praying for you wisdom34
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kctigerhawk
Guest
This breaks my heart. Have we learned nothing?KCtigerhawk posted
Yes, I did read that. You might be interested to read about this prestigious American doctor owner of a fertility clinic for more than 25 years. In 2003 it was reported that Dr. Norbert Gleicher inserted cells from 3 day old male embryos into 21 female embryos who were also 3 days old. He waited another 3 days before killing them to see the results. Twelve of the surviving embryos showed a mosaic distribution of both male and female cells resulting in hermaphrodites. Ammendment 2 does not explicitly prohibit the creation of chimeras. These type of experiments which totally degrade human beings to the status of building blocks for grown-up kids in their laboratories will have no controls. By the way, this research went through an ethics committee, to an institutional review board, before it was conducted.
Note how he used “donated embryos” as if any parent has a right to do this to their offspring. Dr. Gleicher said:
Further note, after he had experimented on humans in the most disturbingly grotesque fashion he is now considering doing this to animals. I always thought animal research was mandatory before human trials.
telegraph.co.uk/news/main.jhtml?xml=/news/2003/07/03/wfert03.xml
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maggieodae
Guest
[SIGN]Good Morning Vietnam!!!
~ Make that Missouri ~
[/SIGN]
I had a wonderful Pro-Life battle victory last night at 9:20 PM. The sign raiders showed up!
Imagine their suprise when they stuck to the signs they were intent on stealing and trashing! I just love honey! It sooooo gooey and sticks to everything…even a nice patch of leaves and feet and hands of miscreants! OH! And you should have seen their faces when the spot light hit them and my cap gun went off! 
Haven’t had that much fun in decades! Made my halloween special!
:bounce:
~ Make that Missouri ~
[/SIGN]I had a wonderful Pro-Life battle victory last night at 9:20 PM. The sign raiders showed up!
Imagine their suprise when they stuck to the signs they were intent on stealing and trashing! I just love honey! It sooooo gooey and sticks to everything…even a nice patch of leaves and feet and hands of miscreants! OH! And you should have seen their faces when the spot light hit them and my cap gun went off! Haven’t had that much fun in decades! Made my halloween special! :bounce:
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astegallrnc
Guest
Did anyone catch it? I missed it.
BTW, maggieodae I am appalled that adults would trash your signs. I wish I were suprised.
Rosalinda & kctigherhawk, excellent posts!
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