Romney: Welfare Moms Need 'Dignity of Work'

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How was he, or anyone else for that matter humiliated? Simply making a blanket claim about one data point does not make an argument.
Well, he wasn’t really the one humiliated. His mother was. I’ll describe (and this isn’t uncommon)-the means-test people would look over all your receipts, and critique your purchases (“You bought chicken, Mrs. O’Hara? Why did you buy chicken? Tuna would have been cheaper, wouldn’t it?..Were those tomatoes really necessary? You know the importance of frugality, don’t you Mrs. O’Hara?”). If you’d been seen near the high-class stores, you’d get a critique for that, too-“We heard you were down by Woolworth’s, Mrs. O’Hara. You know you can’t afford to shop there, don’t you?” This was standard practice at the relief office.
And one can argue that no strings attached welfare for able bodied adults, without some long term plan to help them get off of said welfare isn’t aiding the poor, either.
But means-testing doesn’t really do that, either. My great-grandmother’s problem was just that maids weren’t making enough money; they weren’t putting any money in the bank because even with the relief, they were just barely bringing in enough to keep the house warm and food on the table. They couldn’t get off relief until my grandfather went in the army after World War II, and then the economy got better and my great-grandmother was cleaning houses instead of movie theaters.

So they were on relief for over a decade, and I don’t really see what any plan “to get them off relief” would have been. My grandfather was working the only kinds of jobs a young boy could work (bagel delivery boy, deli delivery boy) and great-grandmother was working the only kind of jobs she knew how.

That translates to today as well. Cleaning ladies who have one or two kids can’t very well take time off to go to school to qualify themselves for a better jobs, and their kids can’t the sort of jobs that would get you into a better financial position until they are much older.
 
You ignored the fact that the Catholic Church’s aid was not given in the same way, and provokes different feelings.

Of course, there is the essential difference that my grandfather’s feelings were expressed to our family; he was never in a position of power over the means-test people. When he was in a position of power over people, he did not use that position of power to try and humiliate them. My grandfather’s feelings did nothing to anyone; the means-testers’ actions directly contributed to adding unpleasantness to the life of a poor, hard-working woman. That’s a crucial difference.
Sounds like the government should get out of the charity business altogether.👍
 
You do realize that both Barack Obama and Joe Biden touted ‘dignity to work’ in 2008 and that President Clinton and the Democrats passed welfare reform supporting it too?

An Obama supporter like yourself criticizing Romney for his past position on abortion is weird, considering Barack Obama is the pro abortion president in the history of America. I bet you can find a video of Ronald Reagen showing support for Roe vs Wade too, before he changed his position.

Ann Romney was not on government welfare. Mitt Romney encouraging mothers who stay at home to go out to paid work rather than depend on welfare is different than Hilary Rosen saying Ann Romney did not do a day of work in her life.
I have no idea why you think I agree with Obama/Biden on everything. I don’t. You seem to follow my posts rather closely & I have previously said I do not. I’ve even said I’ve given consideration to voting 3rd party. But after following the primaries and the crowd reaction at some of them and comments from Obama opponents, and my conscience weighing the many issues and the candidates, I’m planning more a vote against the GOP not so much for Obama since it’s either going to be one or the other. Likewise who said I agreed with Bill Clinton on everything? 🤷 I agreed with Reagan even less.

Hillary Rosen only made a point that Ann Romney has no idea what it’s like to be a lower or middle income mom not of the 1% and to walk in the shoes of some of them.
 
Well, he wasn’t really the one humiliated. His mother was. I’ll describe (and this isn’t uncommon)-the means-test people would look over all your receipts, and critique your purchases (“You bought chicken, Mrs. O’Hara? Why did you buy chicken? Tuna would have been cheaper, wouldn’t it?..Were those tomatoes really necessary? You know the importance of frugality, don’t you Mrs. O’Hara?”). If you’d been seen near the high-class stores, you’d get a critique for that, too-“We heard you were down by Woolworth’s, Mrs. O’Hara. You know you can’t afford to shop there, don’t you?” This was standard practice at the relief office.
Wow! That’s awful. It wasn’t quite that bad when I was on government assistance, but they required everyone who applied for assistance regardless if you actually qualified or not to attend a “class” where you had to sit through 2 hours of all the different ways they can find to kick you off. In not so many words they told everyone there that they didn’t deserve benefits and needed to get off their lazy rump and support themselves (after which they would take your benefits because you made too much at your terrible part-time minimum wage job). If it hadn’t been for my son and the fact that I was leaving an abusive relationship and had no alternatives at the time, I would have gotten up and walked out of the room. They could have taken their benefits and shoved them in unmentionable spots.

I wasn’t so much humiliated as I was irritated that these “government servants” treated people that way. I was fortunate enough that I qualified to go back to college and get my degree so that I could get off assistance. Many of the people I was in the room with had various disabilities and had difficulty understanding how to fill out the huge amounts of paperwork or what was expected of them. I felt so bad for them. No one deserves to be treated as if they are scum sucking welfare leaches who are too stupid and lazy to get a job.
 
Ann Romney was not on government welfare. Mitt Romney encouraging mothers who stay at home to go out to paid work rather than depend on welfare is different than Hilary Rosen saying Ann Romney did not do a day of work in her life.
Abyssinia, in addition after all that fussing last wk, MSNBC played a clip last night of Ann saying she actually loved Hillary’s comment. I’m not sure if she was heard saying that the same night a reporter on the sidewalk overheard her husband telling his Palm Beach supporters about his plans to cut or consolidate depts including something as important as education. They interviewed that reporter last night too. Or if her comments about loving what Hillary said was at another function.
 
Abyssinia, in addition after all that fussing last wk, MSNBC played a clip last night of Ann saying she actually loved Hillary’s comment. I’m not sure if she was heard saying that the same night a reporter on the sidewalk overheard her husband telling his Palm Beach supporters about his plans to cut or consolidate depts including something as important as education. They interviewed that reporter last night too. Or if her comments about loving what Hillary said was at another function.
You might want to recheck that clip to see if it was carefully (or not so carefully) edited to make it appear as if that is what she said.
 
Abyssinia, in addition after all that fussing last wk, MSNBC played a clip last night of Ann saying she actually loved Hillary’s comment. I’m not sure if she was heard saying that the same night a reporter on the sidewalk overheard her husband telling his Palm Beach supporters about his plans to cut or consolidate depts including something as important as education. They interviewed that reporter last night too. Or if her comments about loving what Hillary said was at another function.
Look at the context of Ann Romney’s comments

Transcript: Mitt and Ann Romney’s Interview With Diane Sawyer

DIANE SAWYER: We heard that MSNBC apparently taped last night at a fundraiser that-- and you said it was a birthday gift to you to criticize you as a mom?

ANN ROMNEY: That wasn’t how I meant it. It was a birthday gift to me because I love the fact that we’re talking about this. Because I have been on the trail with Mitt for a long time, nearly a year. We’ve been to 35 states and the thing that happens, Mitt goes in the-- on the rope line and he gets mobbed. And then I go to the other side of the rope line and I go and talk to people. And I’m-- there’s so many women that are there and I’m like, “Why are you guys here? What is-- what’s motivating you? What are you talking about? What are you thinking? What are you feeling?” And it’s really interesting the response I get. Number one which is so fabulous for me and it’s so endearing to me is they say they praying for me which is so touching to me, it nearly makes me cry. The other thing they say is I am so worried about the deficit spending and the economy and my husband’s job, my job, my child’s job. That’s all they’re talking about. And I have been hearing this now for a year. And I’ve been-- after all of this and all this time when everyone else is talking about everything else. And I’m like, “Wait a minute, I know what’s going on. I know what’s happening. I know what people care about. I know what women are talking about.”

And I love the fact that women are talking about deficit spending and the economy, I love that. And for her to make a comment that because I am a stay-at-home mom I don’t know anything about the economy, that’s where I think it was an unfortunate-- an unfortunate–

DIANE SAWYER: But she of course said what she meant was the that the circumstances in which you were able to stay at home were a lot different from–

ANN ROMNEY: Of course they are–

DIANE SAWYER: --from many–

ANN ROMNEY: --and you know-- and I will say for me financial security has not been a huge issue. But that does not mean I’m not compassionate. It does not mean that I have not had different challenges. Everyone in life has their challenges, mine have not been financial. I’m grateful for Mitt for that and grateful for the blessings that that’s brought in my life.

But I’ve also had very serious challenges in my life. And for me you can’t go through life without being scarred and we’re all scarred. And I have been given that in my life and for me, I-- I take it as a place where I can understand people that are suffering, understand people that are going through difficulties. You don’t have to go through everyone’s specific difficulty to understand that people are having trouble. And I-- and I have a different perspective on that from the struggles I’ve gone through.
 
I doubt anybody will agree with me on this. But here goes.

My paternal grandmother and my maternal grandfather were living when I was a child. My grandmother was a middle class widow and my grandfather was a farmer. My grandmother had a maid who came in every few days or so to clean, do laundry and such. Cleaning an old lady’s house is not exactly back-breaking work, and the lady could make her own hours pretty much. They ate meals together, with my grandmother providing the food. Often there was some for her the helper to take home. My grandmother was very big on baking, and would bake a lot more than she could eat by herself.

My grandfather hired men all the time; some long term some short term. It was definitely harder work, mostly outdoors, but he paid well.

My wife works and so do I. She’s tired when she gets home. I never am able to get around to all the things I need to do because I’m often gone.

Both of us would be more than glad to hire domestic help. But it’s really hard to do because you have to deal with withholding, workers’ comp insurance, unemployment insurance, etc. I also have a modest ranch and I do hire a fair amount of contract labor, but guess what? There is a new IRS rule that if I pay any one person more than $600/year, I have to get his SSN and file a 1099 on him. And forget about having a tenant/laborer. Massively troublesome unless you are really wealthy. Ask a “work for cash” person for his SSN and likely as not you’ll get a false number or never see him again. Soooo, despite the fact that I have work and am willing to pay well, it’s just easier for my grown son and me to do the work ourselves (and less than we would prefer) for the most part. Domestic and farm labor are affordable to a lot of people, but the hassle isn’t. It adds a great deal to the cost and trouble. Only the really well to do can afford such things.

What would be so terrible if the government excused potential employers for all of that for strictly domestic and farm work? What if the older lady could just pay the domestic at the end of the day or the week and that simply be that? Unemployed people aren’t paying taxes anyway. They aren’t paying social security, and their medical is taken care of by Medicaid.

And I would be willing to bet that the unemployed single mothers could get work as well in that kind of arrangement, possibly even without government paid daycare. I know lots of women who would take care of children for very little, but there’s the licensing and the withholding and the Medicare tax and the workers’ compensation and the unemployment compensation. On and on and on. And besides, a fair number of householders would put up with the domestic bringing a child or two along if they were reasonably well-behaved and had entertainments onsite to hold their attention.

And just maybe some older people would not have to go into special living arrangements quite so early if they could hire a maid and a handyman now and then and just pay them in cash. Old people even used to have live-in help. Quite ordinary old people. The live-ins got bed and board and pay.

Would it really be so terrible if the government told “welfare mothers” or whomever, that they could, or even had to, in the case of the physically able, earn cash as domestics without having to pay taxes on it and still access such additional benefits on a sliding scale, e.g., Medicaid? Would it be so awful if men or women could do farm work for cash without all the red tape, and still be covered for at least medical?
So true!!! What happens now is crazy–once you earn over a certain amount, the state kicks you off their insurance, and nowadays, insurance costs several hundred dollars/month.
Finally, and maybe I’ll get deluged with objections to this. When I was a kid I picked strawberries for six cents a quart, and was glad to get it. Last spring I picked for my own family in a combined “pick your own” or “buy” place. Nice patch owned by a Mexican guy. He had two local kids (white) working there picking. Obviously local kids. One was probably 16, the other surely wasn’t. Those kids were getting $1.25/quart to pick, as I recall. The Mexican guy was selling them for $2.75 or $3.00/quart and could sell every one he had. Now, a kid who works hard at it can pick anywhere from 25 quarts/day up to about a maximum of 100 quarts. Those kids weren’t ragged or beat up looking. They were just enterprising kids who knew a good thing when they saw it.

But while the law allows the 16 year old to pick, it doesn’t allow the younger kid to pick. But what kind of sense does it make to keep, say, a 12 year old from making anywhere from $30 to $100 per day when he wants to do it? It’s only about three weeks/year. Yes, adults could do it instead, but most adults have jobs they have to go to and can’t just quit to do seasonal work. Besides, kids are better at it than adults are. They don’t get stiff and sore the way adults do who aren’t used to it. And consumers can get fresh sun-ripened strawberries right off the vine.

Oh well. Make the kids sit at home watching tv or playing video games or roam the street.

I know, I know. “Can’t be done”
Another thing that used to happen was that families would have bigger families, and therefore have a bigger house. Then when the children moved out, they would take in boarders, single people usually, who would then have an affordable place to live, and a lot of times they could get their dinner for a small fee (less than a restaurant), which was proabably very nice for them.

Now boarding houses are not permitted in most places, so older people, esp women, don’t have that as an option to make some money for a few years.

I imagine that there lots of other situations like this. It’s sad that the government has made it so difficult for people to earn some money…
 
If he found so humiliating his mother could have declined at any time.
Yeah and just starve herself and her family.

Did you miss the point that this was during the depression?

Jim
 
I know plenty of young people that DONT and WONT work. They are just as happy to collect whatever government pay is out there to sit on thier backsides at thier mom and dads house.
And too many moms and dads are just willing to let thier kids and THIER kids live at home too.
We have become on one hand a nanny state, and on the other we have parents coddleing thier brats well into their 20s.
I will be 49 tomrrow.
I have worked since I was 14.
The only time my parents were ok with me not working was if I was playing sports in high school.
Other than that I worked, I also have no plans to retire. Most people my age know we will work till we die.
A single adult with no income, gets no help from the government. Heck, a married 60 year old unemployed adult, gets no help.

It’s a myth that anyone without children, who is able to work gets to sit home and collect an income from the government.

Jim
 
I think that one of the reasons the men left the women was that they knew that uncle same would take care of them. .
Alcoholics and drug addicts abandon their wife and kids regardless if they get help or not, and it was just as prominent during the great depression as it is today. They just don’t care.

FYI, I live in the People’s Republic too. 😃

Jim
 
Typical Romney. Always all over the place. I saw a tape of him yesterday defending Roe v Wade and a woman’s right to choose back in his days in Massachusetts. Then last wk they’re defending a woman’s choice and Ann’s choice to stay at home. Now the next wk, stay at home moms shouldn’t have a choice and should not stay at home for their dignity.
Well, people evolve when it comes to supporting abortion.

However, when Romney was governor of MA, my state, he was very much pro-life and fought against supporting abortion funding by the state.

Unfortunately, the state legislature is 87% democrat and most bills were veto proof.

Jim
 
There are plenty of older people who don’t and won’t work as well. They are also happy to collect what the government pays out. And demand more, Medicare part D anyone? That is a pure welfare program, which was done George W. Bush.
Actually, if you’re forced to take early retirement at age 62, as I’ll probably be, the government prohibits you from making more than $14,000 per year. However, that only last until age 65, then they let you earn $40,000. At age 66, which is full retirement for most baby boomers, you can earn all you want.

Jim
 
Yes, I work and I am middle aged. So the question is: Should I be entitled to the fruit of someone else’s labor just because I pass an arbitrary age. Now, if the government offers me the dole, will I take it? Yes, because my greed exceeds my desire to avoid being a hypocrite. On the other hand, by the time I get that age I will have had over 40 years in the labor force, plenty of time in my opinion to save up money for my retirement.
If you’ve paid into the system all of your life so others could reap the benefits of retirement in their older years, why shouldn’t you get the same benefit?

Jim
 
I am 56 and have been working all my life, but not at a very lucrative job. Therefore, when I retire if I do at 65, I will probably still need to work at least part time, even with social security and my savings.
You can’t get full retirement until age 66.

If you retire at age 62, you’re limited to earning $14,000 per year.

Of course you don’t get health care, unless of course you live in MA or Obama Care survives.

Then, you’ll be able to buy health insurance at a reduced rate, because you’ll be put into a pool of people who also must buy insurance on their own.

It’s not a free government health insurance program , contrary to what many conservatives believe. You must pay for it, yourself.

Jim
 
Define “bunch of kids.” My mom raised us as a single mom working as a secretary and never had to take government assistance. There were three of us, and the youngest is physically handicapped. Is she some super mom exception?
Thank God for you.

Not everyone gets the same breaks in life.

I know women working at MacDonalds part time for $8. Without food stamps and rent assistance, they’d be homeless and starving.

Jim
 
Really? Do you have any figures to back that up?

My mother is incredible, but I don’t think that other mothers are incapable, as liberals seem to think. Women have an amazing capacity.
Your mom probably had a far better economy to work in than many single mother’s today have.

Imagine yourself with two kids, and you just lost your job because the company moved to China.

Now, your unemployment ran out and you still can’t find work.

What would you do?

Jim
 
They need to completely eliminate the income tax and replace it with a national sales tax (with a Congressional supermajority required to raise it after it has been in force for 3 years.).
The problem with that is, the underground economy would grow and therebye force an increase of policing.

A flat tax is a better option.

Jim
 
I know plenty of young people that DONT and WONT work. They are just as happy to collect whatever government pay is out there to sit on thier backsides at thier mom and dads house.
And too many moms and dads are just willing to let thier kids and THIER kids live at home too.
We have become on one hand a nanny state, and on the other we have parents coddleing thier brats well into their 20s.
I will be 49 tomrrow.
I have worked since I was 14.
The only time my parents were ok with me not working was if I was playing sports in high school.
Other than that I worked, I also have no plans to retire. Most people my age know we will work till we die.
Yup. It’s pitiful.

Except that it’s more like into their 30s, not 20s.
 
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