Seventh Day Adventists

[Katie1723]

My goodness…with out being offensive to anyone here, y’all remind me of a bunch of kids fighting. Actually the verbal banter is wonderful, but I think we should all take our toys and go home . It seems to me that as my father put it “some people would argue with Peter at the gates of heaven”. As for Travis or TWAGLER…your village is calling.
Kathy

 

[twagler]

I cannot believe the ignorance surrounding Constantine. This is a well-known fact.

pathlights.com/theselastdays/tracts/tract_22b.htm

Wonderful history on the combination of paganism and Christianity.

After reading this story, think…

The NT mentions all of the ten commandments, except the sabbath. (which was sanctified at creation) The CC compiled the NT in the setting of the story above. Hmmmm, nah, nothing could have been purposely left out.

If you dispute this history, you might as well say the crusades never happened…I know some that do. If you think about what was going on in the first few centuries after Christ’s death (especially in Rome) and you still can’t see the mix of paganism…think about it again.

 

[vern_humphrey]

twagler:

I cannot believe the ignorance surrounding Constantine. This is a well-known fact.

pathlights.com/theselastdays/tracts/tract_22b.htm

Wonderful history on the combination of paganism and Christianity.

After reading this story, think…

The NT mentions all of the ten commandments, except the sabbath. (which was sanctified at creation) The CC compiled the NT in the setting of the story above. Hmmmm, nah, nothing could have been purposely left out.

If you dispute this history, you might as well say the crusades never happened…I know some that do. If you think about what was going on in the first few centuries after Christ’s death (especially in Rome) and you still can’t see the mix of paganism…think about it again.

If this is your idea of “history,” please spare us your version of "science."http://forums.catholic-questions.org/images/icons/icon10.gif

 

[Subrosa]

twagler:

how is the Sabbath COMMANDMENT a man-made law?

Best,
Travis

Hi Travis -

Sorry, but I won’t let you judge me on issues of the sabbath.

Colossians 2:16
Let no one, then, pass judgment on you in matters of food and drink or with regard to a festival or new moon or sabbath.

Subrosa

 

[Church_Militant]

Well known fact my achin’ foot! I checked that site and that must be the stuff you’re studying for all these exams, right?

Good grief Travis…this is so easy to answer that I’m http://pages.prodigy.net/rogerlori1/emoticons/laughing.gif as I do so.

If Constantine paganized the Catholic Church, then why did Julian the Apostate, a pagan emperor himself initiate a great persecution of the church less than 50 years later because it wasn’t pagan?

Stop believing all these made up histories and such man…and do your own homework. (Like I did!) You can’t trust squat that any SDA source tells you because I’ve caught them in a truckload of outright lies. I read E.G. White’s book and threw it away after I filled the margins of the first 6 chapters with notes in red ink of all the historical inaccuracies and the places where she misreps the teachings of the Catholic Church…Worse…even Jesus told us not to listen to anyone who predicted the day and hour of His return, yet you and all these other people persist in following their teachings…Do you just like being led astray?

Wake up!

 

[vern_humphrey]

Subrosa:

Hi Travis -

Sorry, but I won’t let you judge me on issues of the sabbath.

Colossians 2:16
Let no one, then, pass judgment on you in matters of food and drink or with regard to a festival or new moon or sabbath.

Subrosa

Funny how people who claim to believe the Bible is literally true manage to ignore the parts that conflict with their beliefs.http://forums.catholic-questions.org/images/icons/icon12.gif

 

[twagler]

Subrosa:

Hi Travis -

Sorry, but I won’t let you judge me on issues of the sabbath.

Colossians 2:16
Let no one, then, pass judgment on you in matters of food and drink or with regard to a festival or new moon or sabbath.

Subrosa

Subrosa,

You reinforce my point with this verse (which is taken out of context). Try reading from the beginning of Chapter 2; who is Paul talking to? Lukewarm, no? He is telling the TRUE Christians there to not be spoiled through philosophy and vain deceit, after the tradition of men, after the rudiments of the world, and not after Christ. What traditions of men were being perpetuated in this area? Do you realize what happened at the council of Laodicea? “Christians should not Judaize.” That is, the church fathers made it sinful to observe the Saturday sabbath. Is that judging a man in respect to a sabbath?

As you can see, Vern,*** I*** ignored nothing because I didn’t take the verse out of context.

Trav

 

[shannin]

Twagler, you did not answer my questions:

1. Where does the New Testament come from? and
2. Are you aware that Catholic’s have Mass and worship God every day of the week?

Please answer these questions.

Shannin

 

[twagler]

shannin:

Twagler, you did not answer my questions:

1. Where does the New Testament come from? and
2. Are you aware that Catholic’s have Mass and worship God every day of the week?

Please answer these questions.

Shannin

Actually, I did. Post #141?, I think, answers the question of where the NT came from.

Secondly, I have said over and over that mass and worship are not synonymous with sabbath keeping Period

Trav

 

[vern_humphrey]

twagler:

Subrosa,

You reinforce my point with this verse (which is taken out of context). Try reading from the beginning of Chapter 2; who is Paul talking to? Lukewarm, no? He is telling the TRUE Christians there to not be spoiled through philosophy and vain deceit, after the tradition of men, after the rudiments of the world, and not after Christ. What traditions of men were being perpetuated in this area? Do you realize what happened at the council of Laodicea? “Christians should not Judaize.” That is, the church fathers made it sinful to observe the Saturday sabbath. Is that judging a man in respect to a sabbath?

Trav

Follow your own advice – read frm the beginning of Chapter 2, with its warning against false teachers (like E.G. White). And go on beyond verse 16.

8 See to it that no one captivate you with an empty, seductive philosophy according to human tradition, according to the elemental powers of the world and not according to Christ. 9 For in him dwells the whole fullness of the deity bodily, 10 and you share in this fullness in him, who is the head of every principality and power. 11 In him you were also circumcised with a circumcision not administered by hand, by stripping off the carnal body, with the circumcision of Christ. 12 You were buried with him in baptism, in which you were also raised with him through faith in the power of God, who raised him from the dead. 13 And even when you were dead (in) transgressions and the uncircumcision of your flesh, he brought you to life along with him, having forgiven us all our transgressions; 14 obliterating the bond against us, with its legal claims, which was opposed to us, he also removed it from our midst, nailing it to the cross; 15 despoiling the principalities and the powers, he made a public spectacle of them, leading them away in triumph by it. 16 Let no one, then, pass judgment on you in matters of food and drink or with regard to a festival or new moon or sabbath. 17 These are shadows of things to come; the reality belongs to Christ. 18 Let no one disqualify you, delighting in self-abasement and worship of angels, taking his stand on visions, inflated without reason by his fleshly mind, 19 and not holding closely to the head, from whom the whole body, supported and held together by its ligaments and bonds, achieves the growth that comes from God. 20 If you died with Christ to the elemental powers of the world, why do you submit to regulations as if you were still living in the world?

Read the last verse – and all preceeding.

 

[twagler]

Vern,

I do not know what you are getting at. This passage backs my point.

 

[vern_humphrey]

twagler:

Vern,

I do not know what you are getting at. This passage backs my point.

If you believe that, you can believe anything.

You are making a big thing over whether or not we should worship on Saturday or Sunday. The passage makes it clear that the original cite of verse 16 (“Let no one, then, pass judgment on you in matters of food and drink or with regard to a festival or new moon or sabbath”) is correct – you are polevaulting over mouse droppings, and ignoring the reality of Christ and His message.

 

[shannin]

twagler:

Actually, I did. Post #141?, I think, answers the question of where the NT came from.

Secondly, I have said over and over that mass and worship are not synonymous with sabbath keeping Period

Trav

Trav, I started this thread (months ago) because I heard the hateful things that the SDA preachers on 3ABN were saying about my faith. They say that the Catholic Church and our Holy Father are the Antichrist and whore of Babylon. I must say I’ve never heard so many hateful statements come out of any minister’s mouth. The are supposed to be ministers of God, but they spread lies and hatred.

When Jesus left his Apostles, he did not hand them a written New Testament. He left a working Church, with the Apostle Peter in charge of his Church. He told Peter to “feed his sheep”. There was one Church then, the Catholic Church. Just look at how many different denominations and cults there are today? Do you think that’s what God intended? God doesn’t spread confusion among his people? No, he left an orderly, working Church, the Catholic Church. He also left us the Body and Blood of Jesus.

What do the Adventists believe in besides the sabbath, dietary laws and bashing Catholics? I never hear them speak out against abortion and abuse of the elderly and helpless. And, by the way, Ellen White is a false prophet and the numbers in her name add up to 666, which is what the SDA’s say about our Pope.

 

[twagler]

vern humphrey:

If you believe that, you can believe anything.

You are making a big thing over whether or not we should worship on Saturday or Sunday. The passage makes it clear that the original cite of verse 16 (“Let no one, then, pass judgment on you in matters of food and drink or with regard to a festival or new moon or sabbath”) is correct – you are polevaulting over mouse droppings, and ignoring the reality of Christ and His message.

No, I am not making a big thing over worshipping. I am making a fuss over observance of the sabbath. We should worship everyday.

Paul makes it clear he is speaking to those who have not seen his face in the flesh. Why? Because he would have told them what to do. Instead he writes a letter. The practice in those days was to observe Saturday (according to the Bible) and Sunday (according to traditions of men and rudiments of the world), hence lukewarm.

 

[twagler]

vern humphrey:

If you believe that, you can believe anything.

You are making a big thing over whether or not we should worship on Saturday or Sunday. The passage makes it clear that the original cite of verse 16 (“Let no one, then, pass judgment on you in matters of food and drink or with regard to a festival or new moon or sabbath”) is correct – you are polevaulting over mouse droppings, and ignoring the reality of Christ and His message.

No, I am not making a big thing over worshipping. I am making a fuss over observance of the sabbath. We should worship everyday. Why did God sanctify the seventh day at creation?

Paul makes it clear he is speaking to those who have not seen his face in the flesh. Why? Because he would have told them what to do. Instead he writes a letter. The practice in those days was to observe Saturday (according to the Bible) and Sunday (according to traditions of men and rudiments of the world), hence lukewarm.

Alas, exam #3 is coming up at 3pm. I must retire to my cramming.

Trav

 

[vern_humphrey]

twagler:

No, I am not making a big thing over worshipping. I am making a fuss over observance of the sabbath.

And Paul clearly tells you “Let no one, then, pass judgment on you in matters of food and drink or with regard to a festival or new moon or sabbath”

twagler:

We should worship everyday. Why did God sanctify the seventh day at creation?

God set aside a day of rest for man – as Christ himself tells us, “Man was not made for the Sabbath, the Sabbath was made for man.”

twagler:

Paul makes it clear he is speaking to those who have not seen his face in the flesh. Why? Because he would have told them what to do. Instead he writes a letter.

Well, duh!http://forums.catholic-questions.org/images/icons/icon12.gif

twagler:

The practice in those days was to observe Saturday (according to the Bible) and Sunday (according to traditions of men and rudiments of the world), hence lukewarm.

The connection of “lukewarm” to the practice of observing the Sabbath doesn’t follow.

 

[steve_b]

twagler:

I cannot believe the ignorance surrounding Constantine. This is a well-known fact.

Why all this emphasis over Constantine? 215 years earlier Ignatius of Antioch, an apostolic father writes :

• Chapter IX.-Let Us Live with Christ.

“If, therefore, those who were brought up in the ancient order of things49 have come to the possession of a new50 hope, no longer observing the Sabbath, but living in the observance51 of the Lord’s Day, on which also our life has sprung up again by Him and by His death-whom some deny, by which mystery we have obtained faith,52 and therefore endure, that we may be found the disciples of Jesus Christ,…”

"He will come and save us."56 Let us therefore no longer keep the Sabbath after the Jewish manner, and rejoice in days of idleness; for "he that does not work, let him not eat."57 For say the [holy] oracles, "In the sweat of thy face shalt thou eat thy bread.“58 But let every one of you keep the Sabbath after a spiritual manner, rejoicing in meditation on the law, not in relaxation of the body, admiring the workmanship of God, and not eating things prepared the day before, nor using lukewarm drinks, and walking within a prescribed space, nor finding delight in dancing and plaudits which have no sense in them.59 And after the observance of the Sabbath, let every friend of Christ keep the Lord’s Day as a festival, the resurrection-day, the queen and chief of all the days [of the week].” (Letter to the Magnesians [A.D. 107]). Check it out yourself. Here is the full context. Read his other letters while you’re at it.

ccel.org/fathers2/ANF-01/anf01-17.htm#TopOfPage

Ignatius, approx 80 years old at this time, is the bishop of Antioch… He writes 7 letters while on his way to be martyred, [fed to the lions]. This letter is one of those 7 letters. By his age, you can see why he was an apostolic Father because he lived and wrote during the lives and times of the apostles. He knew St John the apostle.

The point is Travis, if you want to emphasize the Jewish sabbath go ahead. As for me, I go to daily mass, and receive Our Lord’s body blood soul and Divinity each and every day, but particularly I emphasize Our Lord’s day which is Sunday.

 

[twagler]

Vern,

And if you believe the early church “worshipped” (kneeling, praying to) Mary, then you will believe anything. I have no hope of changing your mind, so I will not try.

Steve,

This letter from Ignatius solidifies what I am trying to say. Was he from Rome? The ONLY places this was taking place was in Alexandria and Rome, the rest of the world still observed the sabbath. The TRADITION of honoring the venerable sun was perpetuated in Rome and Alexandria. This sun-religion is the oldest religion known to man. Is it a coincidence that the birthday of the sun-god Mithra is December 25? The church made Christ’s birthday the same day to help recruit pagans. Also, why change the day (rules for determining) of Easter from the biblical day? Didn’t Paul speak of a falling away from the true church? I think he did, 2 Thes.

I cannot understand how the connection is not being made. Read the whole page I posted for you. If you don’t believe at least some of it is true, then you must be in a perpetual state of bliss.

I’m out til Monday,
Trav

 

[vern_humphrey]

twagler:

Vern,

And if you believe the early church “worshipped” (kneeling, praying to) Mary, then you will believe anything.

And if you believe the modern church “worships” Mary, then you will believe anything.http://forums.catholic-questions.org/images/icons/icon10.gif

twagler:

This letter from Ignatius solidifies what I am trying to say. Was he from Rome? The ONLY places this was taking place was in Alexandria and Rome, the rest of the world still observed the sabbath.

So post a contemporary document proving that ONLY Rome and Alexandria held services on Sunday.

 

[ChristopherMich]

Hail Mary, full of grace, the Lord is with thee. Blesses art thou among women, and blessed is the fruit of thy whom, Jesus. Holy Mary, Mother of God, pray for us sinners, now and at the hour of our death, Amen.

Excuse me, but where does it say Mary is Lord? Where does it say that we are worshiping her? Hail Mary, full of grace, ***the Lord is with thee. ***Seems very proper to me.