The Case for Impeachment Is Overwhelming | The American Conservative

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Nobody in the executive branch has been arrested or even fined for refusing to appear before Congress regarding the impeachment.
Yes, since the President ordered them not to appear, they cannot be charged criminally. That is in the constitution. They are protected from criminal charges for not appearing, even if what the president did was unconstitutional, illegal.
Congress cannot order a President to appear.
I don’t think they did. Even if they could, he could take the 5th. The subpoenas to members of the executive were orders to appear.
 
Yes, since the President ordered them not to appear, they cannot be charged criminally. That is in the constitution. They are protected from criminal charges for not appearing, even if what the president did was unconstitutional, illegal.
So, I guess you could say “‘executive privilege’ includes the legality of denying subpoenas from congress concerning impeachment."
 
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OneSheep:
Yes, since the President ordered them not to appear, they cannot be charged criminally. That is in the constitution. They are protected from criminal charges for not appearing, even if what the president did was unconstitutional, illegal.
So, I guess you could say “‘executive privilege’ includes the legality of denying subpoenas from congress concerning impeachment."
No, that is not the truth. Trump does not have that executive privilege, but the legal consequence for him denying subpoenas is not the arresting the people he barred from appearing.

The consequence for his illegal action is impeachment, not arrest of the people he barred.

This is fair, right? The people receiving the subpoenas denied by Trump are understandably torn between which authority to follow.

Try to imagine the same circumstances if it were a President you did not support. Any sitting president calling for foreign nations to investigate a political rival is a huge problem. If they were to comply, what favors would they receive in return? If Russia did an investigation and came up with some bogus (but standing) claim, they may turn to America wanting the favor returned for one of Putin’s rivals. Shouldn’t we see this as an example of “quagmire” warned by America’s founding fathers?
 
No, that is not the truth. Trump does not have that executive privilege, but the legal consequence for him denying subpoenas is not the arresting the people he barred from appearing.

The consequence for his illegal action is impeachment, not arrest of the people he barred.
Which still doesn’t put him in a subordinate position to Congress, which is what you asserted.
 
China is still the outstanding piece of the puzzle here but it’s moving in the right direction. The tariffs are moving manufacturers out of China into other low cost locations. China will eventually play ball, or continue to lose their market share.
Could very well be true but Trump has demonstrated no US agreement is permanent or even trustworthy. That’s hardly what I would consider an accomplishment.
 
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Could very well be true but Trump has demonstrated no US agreement is permanent or even trustworthy. That’s hardly what I would consider an accomplishment
Of course no agreement is permanent, that’s always been the way.

Why do you say “even trustworthy” that is a confusing argument to make against trump.

Better trade terms for the USA are in deed an accomplishment.
 
Which still doesn’t put him in a subordinate position to Congress, which is what you asserted.
When the president violates the constitution, Congress may impeach him. This makes his action and position “subordinate” to the will of congress in cases of impeachment. We can disagree on that use of the word “subordinate”. 🙂

Note: Ronald Reagan violated an act of congress concerning central Central America. He ended up having to answer for it, he could not simply do whatever he wanted. His undercutting of congress’ wishes was outed, reprimanded, and discontinued.

Bottom line: no one is above the law.

'nuff said?
 
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Bottom line: no one is above the law.

'nuff said?
I wish it would be enough. In Trump’s opinion he can do whatever he wants, and Congress has no power. The sad thing is that his supporters agree with this disastrous opinion.

In a 120-page opinion, U.S. District Court Judge Ketanji Brown Jackson rejected Trump’s claim that McGahn was “absolutely immune” from being called to testify, even though he was no longer a White House employee. “Stated simply, the primary takeaway from the past 250 years of recorded American history is that Presidents are not kings,” she wrote.
 
The President isn’t obligated to respond to a Congressional subpoena.
On July 24, 1974, the Supreme Court unanimously ruled that Nixon was obligated to turn over the Nixon tapes that were subpoenaed by the House Judiciary Committee , so clearly the President does have to comply some times.
 
Again, it’s hard to prove a negative. But I’m sure that won’t stop you from your repeated denials.
Nobody is asking you to prove a negative, but you have not produced, nor has the whole Dem party produced, any actual facts showing Trump did anything wrong as regards the Ukraine phone conversation which supposedly triggered this impeachment business. Lots of speculation, yes. But no facts.
 
On July 24, 1974, the Supreme Court unanimously ruled that Nixon was obligated to turn over the Nixon tapes that were subpoenaed by the House Judiciary Committee , so clearly the President does have to comply some times.
No. In the Nixon case, the subpoena was not issued by the House Judiciary Committee, but by the U.S. District Court. Even then, there were some qualifiers to it.

But it was definitely not a subpoena issued by any House committee.
 
When the president violates the constitution, Congress may impeach him
They could impeach him for passing gas and fanning it in your direction. Impeachment has always boiled down to a popularity vote.
 
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Edit: Sorry, couldn’t pass up a good Monty Python inference.
 
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The point was that it was resolved by the Supreme Court so technically the poster is correct in stating some time. Why, is it unconstitutional for the House to appeal to the SC?
 
What I see is people getting really upset over the trivial and ignore the real issues. Yes, Trump is prone to hyperbole, his crowd wasn’t as big as he indicated.
Maybe we disagree on what’s important and what’s trivial? I think acting the way Trump does on the world stage is a huge problem.
China is still the outstanding piece of the puzzle here but it’s moving in the right direction. The tariffs are moving manufacturers out of China into other low cost locations. China will eventually play ball, or continue to lose their market share.
The farmers losing their farms or getting those socialistic farm subsidies probably don’t think things are going swimmingly.
 
The point was that it was resolved by the Supreme Court so technically the poster is correct in stating some time. Why, is it unconstitutional for the House to appeal to the SC?
I never said it was unconstitutional for the House to appeal to the Supreme Court. The Dems just haven’t.

The poster is incorrect in his understanding of the Nixon subpoena, and therefore his point was incorrect.
 
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7_Sorrows:
Why does he have to save face? He has done nothing wrong.
Zelensky is brand new to politics and needs to polish his image with his people of a strong leader. If he admitted to feeling pressured by the US to do their bidding, it would make him appear weak. Then there is this: Zelensky knows he needs aid from Trump to hold off the Russians who are currently attacking his nation. If he came out against Trump, he may worry about future interruptions in that aid which might spell disaster for Ukraine, and even more likely for himself politically. He is walking a tightrope on these questions put to him by reporters. Further, he is not testifying under oath and has no particular reason to tell all he knows. And if you look at the exact wording of his responses and their context, you will see that he is leaving himself some wiggle room on this “no pressure” response.

In summary, Zelensky’s answers are non-committal and cannot be taken as any kind of “proof” that a bribe was not offered by Trump.
You are certainly welcome to your theory or opinion and that is all it is. It is not
fact.
 
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Guinness:
Which still doesn’t put him in a subordinate position to Congress, which is what you asserted.
When the president violates the constitution, Congress may impeach him. This makes his action and position “subordinate” to the will of congress in cases of impeachment. We can disagree on that use of the word “subordinate”. 🙂

Note: Ronald Reagan violated an act of congress concerning central Central America. He ended up having to answer for it, he could not simply do whatever he wanted. His undercutting of congress’ wishes was outed, reprimanded, and discontinued.

Bottom line: no one is above the law.

'nuff said?
How did President Trump violate the Constitution?
 
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