The Fear of Hell

[openmind77]

We do not use the words of Jesus Only to gather our understanding about Hell.

Just like we wouldn’t use the words of

-Jesus Only That Are Written In Matthew
-Jesus Only After He Resurrected
-Paul Only
-John Only
-Moses Only
-Jesus ONLY That Start with “Amen! Amen! I say to you…”
-Jesus ONLY While He Was On The Cross

#arbitrary
#wetaketheWordofGodinitsentirety

No ordinary human being can know what life is like after death. So for something like this we do need the words of a divine person to know what is the truth. For knowing about other things, witnesses or words of apostles are enough.

What happens after death is not witnessed by anyone. So we need the words of Jesus to support such a belief.

As I said before there are no words of Jesus that support the belief that sinners go to hell for eternity without another chance. Please quote them if you find any,

 

[openmind77]

Everyone has a multitude of opportunities to repent when they die. God is both just and merciful.

I am not sure how you can say that. Someone can get hit by a bus right after they commit a mortal sin - like when running away after a robbery. There is zero opportunity in that case.

 

[PRmerger]

No ordinary human being can know what life is like after death. So for something like this we do need the words of a divine person to know what is the truth.

Very Catholic, this!

What happens after death is not witnessed by anyone. So we need the words of Jesus to support such a belief.

This, too, is quite consonant with Catholicism.

You are aware that the Words of Jesus come in 2 forms: Scripture and Tradition, yes?

Not everything Jesus said or did were written down.

As I said before there are no words of Jesus that support the belief that sinners go to hell for eternity without another chance. Please quote them if you find any,

Luke 10:16

 

[PRmerger]

It does not matter whether the Church got anything right.

Just to be sure we’re on the same page here, and that you’re connecting the dots that you’ve never tried to connect before…

you do know that it was the Catholic Church who looked at the over 400 Christian texts and decided, “This one…in the Bible!” “This one…out of the Bible!”

So when you quote from Jesus in, say, Matthew, you understand it’s because the CC said, “Matthew is theopneustos!”.

Yes?

 

[openmind77]

Just to be sure we’re on the same page here, and that you’re connecting the dots that you’ve never tried to connect before…

you do know that it was the Catholic Church who looked at the over 400 Christian texts and decided, “This one…in the Bible!” “This one…out of the Bible!”

So when you quote from Jesus in, say, Matthew, you understand it’s because the CC said, “Matthew is theopneustos!”.

Yes?

Yes we are on the same page here. There are no words of Jesus that are included by the Church in the Bible which support the belief that sinners get sent to hell for eternity. Please quote them if you find any.

 

[PRmerger]

Yes we are on the same page here. There are no words of Jesus that are included by the Church in the Bible which support the belief that sinners get sent to hell for eternity. Please quote them if you find any.

There are also no words of Jesus included by the Church in the Gospel of John which say to love your enemies.

I trust that you will never again say that Jesus says to love our enemies?

 

[PRmerger]

Yes we are on the same page here. There are no words of Jesus that are included by the Church in the Bible which support the belief that sinners get sent to hell for eternity. Please quote them if you find any.

Luke 10:16

 

[openmind77]

Luke 10:16

I already checked that verse.

Please stay with the topic and answer my question: there are no words of Jesus that support the belief that sinners go to hell for eternity without another chance. Please quote them if you find any,

 

[PRmerger]

I already checked that verse.

Please stay with the topic and answer my question: there are no words of Jesus that support the belief that sinners go to hell for eternity without another chance. Please quote them if you find any,

Luke 10:16

 

[mikekle]

I am not sure how you can say that. Someone can get hit by a bus right after they commit a mortal sin - like when running away after a robbery. There is zero opportunity in that case.

You dont know that for sure…No one knows exactly what happens in the milliseconds before our ACTUAL death, maybe in our consciousness, at this state of being, these milliseconds seem like hours?

 

[tonyrey]

I am not sure how you can say that. Someone can get hit by a bus right after they commit a mortal sin - like when running away after a robbery. There is zero opportunity in that case.

1. God never permits unnecessary suffering.
2. If we choose to live for ourselves He respects our decision.
3. Even in this life people choose to suffer for freedom.
4. Only God knows our state of mind when we die.
5. We know nothing about the transition to the next life.
6. It is possible no one chooses hell.
7. It is also possible some choose to be independent.
8. Otherwise Jesus would not have warned us about hell.
9. We do not need to be afraid of hell if we love others and follow His example.
10. We should live in hope rather than fear because Jesus died for all of us.

 

[tonyrey]

You dont know that for sure…No one knows exactly what happens in the milliseconds before our ACTUAL death, maybe in our consciousness, at this state of being, these milliseconds seem like hours?

When I almost drowned in the sea I seemed completely detached from the world beyond space and time with only one thought in my mind: how my mother would feel when she was told I was dead. I was motivated by concern for her feelings rather than fear. That was why I overcame my panic and forced myself to swim back to the beach.

 

[tonyrey]

There are two equal and opposite errors into which our race can fall about devils. One is to disbelieve in their existence. The other is to believe, and feel an excessive and unhealthy interest in them. The devils themselves are equally pleased by both extremes, and hail a materialist or a magician with the same delight.

• C.S.Lewis

It is significant that there are far more threads about hell than heaven…

 

[tonyrey]

I already checked that verse.

Please stay with the topic and answer my question: there are no words of Jesus that support the belief that sinners go to hell for eternity without another chance. Please quote them if you find any,

It is clear in His parable:

19 “There was a rich man who was dressed in purple and fine linen and lived in luxury every day. 20 At his gate was laid a beggar named Lazarus, covered with sores 21 and longing to eat what fell from the rich man’s table. Even the dogs came and licked his sores.
22 “The time came when the beggar died and the angels carried him to Abraham’s side. The rich man also died and was buried. 23 In Hades, where he was in torment, he looked up and saw Abraham far away, with Lazarus by his side. 24 So he called to him, ‘Father Abraham, have pity on me and send Lazarus to dip the tip of his finger in water and cool my tongue, because I am in agony in this fire.’
25 “But Abraham replied, ‘Son, remember that in your lifetime you received your good things, while Lazarus received bad things, but now he is comforted here and you are in agony. 26 And besides all this, between us and you a great chasm has been set in place, so that those who want to go from here to you cannot, nor can anyone cross over from there to us.’

Luke 16:19-31

Why did Jesus give us this parable if Abraham’s words are not true?

 

[openmind77]

You dont know that for sure…No one knows exactly what happens in the milliseconds before our ACTUAL death, maybe in our consciousness, at this state of being, these milliseconds seem like hours?

Of course you don’t know for sure in ALL cases. But in a majority of cases when you get killed while running from the police you don’t get the chance to even think about repentance.

 

[openmind77]

It is clear in His parable:

Luke 16:19-31

Why did Jesus give us this parable if Abraham’s words are not true?

Sure Abraham’s words are true. You can not go directly from hell to heaven (where presumably Abraham and Lazarus were).

I am just saying that Jesus never said you have to stay in hell for eternity.

(BTW, I wonder if the parable is saying that all rich men who live in luxury end up in hell? What do you think? )

 

[PRmerger]

There are no words of Jesus that are included by the Church in the Bible which support the belief that sinners get sent to hell for eternity. Please quote them if you find any.

Incidentally, there are no words of Jesus talking about celebrating birthdays.

I presume that you believe it’s fine for Christians to celebrate this, yes?

 

[GEddie]

Of course you don’t know for sure in ALL cases. But in a majority of cases when you get killed while running from the police you don’t get the chance to even think about repentance.

We don’t know, really.

Repentance takes time, certainly. And the more we persevere in sinning, the less able we will be to make that decision in time, especially if our head is rapidly becoming unserviceable.

But methinks that God will set up your death so as to allow at least a last chance for repentance. Not while dying, necessarily.

ICXC NIKA

 

[GEddie]

Sure Abraham’s words are true. You can not go directly from hell to heaven (where presumably Abraham and Lazarus were).

I am just saying that Jesus never said you have to stay in hell for eternity.

(BTW, I wonder if the parable is saying that all rich men who live in luxury end up in hell? What do you think? )

Hardly. David and Solomon lived in far greater luxury than the man of Luke 16.

The rich are not per se to be blamed, nor are the poor necessarily to be admired.

ICXC NIKA

 

[openmind77]

We don’t know, really.

Repentance takes time, certainly. And the more we persevere in sinning, the less able we will be to make that decision in time, especially if our head is rapidly becoming unserviceable.

But methinks that God will set up your death so as to allow at least a last chance for repentance. Not while dying, necessarily.

ICXC NIKA

So an old man with a heart condition who dies while committing adultery for the first time, will be given at least one chance to repent – when?

A young teenager who gets shot while committing his first hold up (maybe a gas station) will be given at least one chance to repent – when?