Thousands protest immigration proposal

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rlg94086:
I would like to say, “hire that industrious teenager down the block”, but I’m not sure they exist anymore 😦 . You have to pry the video game controls from their hands and teach them what a lawnmower is first.
I have no preference for the teenager over the Mexican.

Kendy
 
Give it a rest. I try to lighten things up, and you make it sound like I’m making an argument. Sheesh!
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Kendy:
I have no preference for the teenager over the Mexican.

Kendy
 
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Kendy:
Excuse me, but from which bible did you get the notion that ought only to love those who share you nationality?

Kendy
Excellent question! I want to ask people that all the time. When Jesus talked about helping “the least of mine” he doesn’t mention doing it only when it is convenience, won’t raise your tax rates, or only if people are legally on the right side of a man made line. What Jesus says is not ambiguous in the least.

Kendy, you’ve got it right.
 
Nope… she’s got it all wrong and so do you… Mexico is NOT my problem. Nor will it be.

If you want to make it my problem… then build the wall and force Mexico to deal with thier failures as a government.
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koda:
Excellent question! I want to ask people that all the time. When Jesus talked about helping “the least of mine” he doesn’t mention doing it only when it is convenience, won’t raise your tax rates, or only if people are legally on the right side of a man made line. What Jesus says is not ambiguous in the least.

Kendy, you’ve got it right.
 
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koda:
Excellent question! I want to ask people that all the time. When Jesus talked about helping “the least of mine” he doesn’t mention doing it only when it is convenience, won’t raise your tax rates, or only if people are legally on the right side of a man made line. What Jesus says is not ambiguous in the least.

Kendy, you’ve got it right.
No, you all have it wrong: no one is advocating shutting down the border or hunting down illegal aliens. What is being advocated is enforcing laws that are already on the books to reign in some control so the system can be fixed.
 
EXACTLY… so they won’t feel the need to break the law in trying to get here. Its Mexicos problem… the best thing we could do… is build the wall and make ppl go thru the legal process. ( BTW: there are alot of other than Mexicans that sneak across the border… like terrorists something to think about ).

I know a few ppl that immgrated here legally… kinda feel for them that the process they had to do to get here… the classes they had to take to become a citizen etc… they get slapped in the face by all these illegal aliens that refuse to do it legally.
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wabrams:
No, you all have it wrong: no one is advocating shutting down the border or hunting down illegal aliens. What is being advocated is enforcing laws that are already on the books to reign in some control so the system can be fixed.
 
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wabrams:
Don’t lecture me about not being fair when you haven’t even read the proposed legislation. If you had, we wouldn’t be having this discussion.

From what I have seen, you have provided no evidence except for you opinion and false assumptions.
First of all, while I did not read every word of the proposed legislation, I did give it a good skim and looked at some of the parts that peeked my interest.

Secondly, I don’t know how much more evidence you have provided than me, but I think I made some pretty good arguments. They are certainly no worst anyone else’s. But obviously, we all have our minds made up and are not going to be persuaded by each other arguments. So, I am bowing out of this discussion.

I will say one last thing, which I am increasingly disappointed by the moral priorities of many of the forum participants. When I was thinking about reverting, I encountered some really wonderful people on the apologetics section so I thought this was would be a great place to talk some committed catholics, but I have really changed my mind.

There is no easy way to say but I find that there is constantly righteous indignant over minor liturgical infractions, or down right silly stuff, like should men where their hair short. Or just plain crazy stuff, like let’s burn the heretics. But very little interest in issues of charity and social justice, which seem to me like an important component of our faith.

I honestly don’t understand a version of Christianity that cares more about whether women are getting their foot washed on Holy Thursday than whether Mexican families can feed their children. And when I speak about the very real stories of life in Haiti, I either get dismissed or told that my arguments are just anecdotal. This strikes me as very different than gospel high call to minister to the poor. I often don’t feel like we practice the same religion. Frankly, I don’t recognize your Jesus.

Perhaps, my arguments are indeed lousy (darn, all those years of competitive debate:( ). But I really think that many of you constantly run back and forth to every line in the CCC, but have forgotten the spirit of the law. Do justice and seek mercy. And more importantly, love your neighbor. Imagine if you were the mother of those Mexican children. How would you wanted to be treated? Imagine you were the malnutrition Haitian child. What would you want from your wealthy neighbor?

I come from an almost all immigrant community. I have yet to meet the immigrant who thinks the smuggler is the bad guy here. Maybe, you should listening to our testimonies.

You may now jump all over me for being uncharitable.

Kendy
 
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Kendy:
First of all, while I did not read every word of the proposed legislation, I did give it a good skim and looked at some of the parts that peeked my interest.
Oh, thats VERY obvious.
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Kendy:
Secondly, I don’t know how much more evidence you have provided than me, but I think I made some pretty good arguments. They are certainly no worst anyone else’s. But obviously, we all have our minds made up and are not going to be persuaded by each other arguments. So, I am bowing out of this discussion.
I’m not the one claiming its a racist system, only the rich are given citizenship, ad nauseum. All I have said is read the proposed legislation, which you obviously ahve a link too.
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Kendy:
I will say one last thing, which I am increasingly disappointed by the moral priorities of many of the forum participants. When I was thinking about reverting, I encountered some really wonderful people on the apologetics section so I thought this was would be a great place to talk some committed catholics, but I have really changed my mind.

There is no easy way to say but I find that there is constantly righteous indignant over minor liturgical infractions, or down right silly stuff, like should men where their hair short. Or just plain crazy stuff, like let’s burn the heretics. But very little interest in issues of charity and social justice, which seem to me like an important component of our faith.

I honestly don’t understand a version of Christianity that cares more about whether women are getting their foot washed on Holy Thursday than whether Mexican families can feed their children. And when I speak about the very real stories of life in Haiti, I either get dismissed or told that my arguments are just anecdotal. This strikes me as very different than gospel high call to minister to the poor. I often don’t feel like we practice the same religion. Frankly, I don’t recognize your Jesus.

Perhaps, my arguments are indeed lousy (darn, all those years of competitive debate:( ). But I really think that many of you constantly run back and forth to every line in the CCC, but have forgotten the spirit of the law. Do justice and seek mercy. And more importantly, love your neighbor. Imagine if you were the mother of those Mexican children. How would you wanted to be treated? Imagine you were the malnutrition Haitian child. What would you want from your wealthy neighbor?

I come from an almost all immigrant community. I have yet to meet the immigrant who thinks the smuggler is the bad guy here. Maybe, you should listening to our testimonies.

You may now jump all over me for being uncharitable.

Kendy
What reall bugs the cr*p out of me is this ‘all or nothing" attitude you and others have: either we let everyone in whenever they want or we’re totally against immigration in any form. Fortunately, the reall world doesn’t work like that. I guess in the fantasy world you and other protesters have created it does exist, as well as the self righteouness that you stand on Jesus’ side and the rest of us don’t.
 
After talking to some kids who have illegals in the family, I really get what it is that they are protesting. It’s all about family values.

I talked with several students who were out of school on Friday for a protest. These are nice kids whose moms/dads come to conferences with all the little ones in tow and the oldest kid translates.

They have big extended families where some of them are legal and some of them are not. They are terrified and angry that their families will be split apart; that kids who were born in Mexico, but have never lived there, might have to go back; that grandma will be hauled away.

Bottom line, a lot of it is being able to be a family in the same country.
 
Yes! This is the biggest challenge. That’s why we need to find a way to legalize their situation without giving blanket amnesty. How? Do I have to say it again? 😉 😃

Anyway, as I heard on the radio today, the way to ‘punish’ those who came in illegally but still allow them to stay with family intact, is to fine them (punishment for coming in illegally) and enter them into the new program (GW’s gw program) - whatever form that takes.

As I said before, I think this should especially be done with property owners, tax payers, veterans…and I’ll add blended status families. No one (well except for fringe loonies) wants to split up families or seize property.

Now, those here illegally who have committed crimes…see ya!
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Thekla:
After talking to some kids who have illegals in the family, I really get what it is that they are protesting. It’s all about family values.

I talked with several students who were out of school on Friday for a protest. These are nice kids whose moms/dads come to conferences with all the little ones in tow and the oldest kid translates.

They have big extended families where some of them are legal and some of them are not. They are terrified and angry that their families will be split apart; that kids who were born in Mexico, but have never lived there, might have to go back; that grandma will be hauled away.

Bottom line, a lot of it is being able to be a family in the same country.
 
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wabrams:
What reall bugs the cr*p out of me is this ‘all or nothing" attitude you and others have: either we let everyone in whenever they want or we’re totally against immigration in any form. Fortunately, the reall world doesn’t work like that. I guess in the fantasy world you and other protesters have created it does exist, as well as the self righteouness that you stand on Jesus’ side and the rest of us don’t.
What really bugs the **** out of me is this attitude that God is a white American male Republican. Do you really think that if you explained to Jesus that these people were too much of a strain on our “system” that he’d agree it was okay not to help them? He didn’t place limitations on our helping each other (I’m talking about honest men and women who just want to earn a decent wage to provide for their families, not potential terrorists and such).
 
If the Mexican Government actually cared about its residents… there wouldn’t be a ‘need’ to come over illagally.

That being said… if those familes came over legally… I guess this wouldn’t be a problem.
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Thekla:
After talking to some kids who have illegals in the family, I really get what it is that they are protesting. It’s all about family values.

I talked with several students who were out of school on Friday for a protest. These are nice kids whose moms/dads come to conferences with all the little ones in tow and the oldest kid translates.

They have big extended families where some of them are legal and some of them are not. They are terrified and angry that their families will be split apart; that kids who were born in Mexico, but have never lived there, might have to go back; that grandma will be hauled away.

Bottom line, a lot of it is being able to be a family in the same country.
 
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Thekla:
After talking to some kids who have illegals in the family, I really get what it is that they are protesting. It’s all about family values.

I talked with several students who were out of school on Friday for a protest. These are nice kids whose moms/dads come to conferences with all the little ones in tow and the oldest kid translates.

They have big extended families where some of them are legal and some of them are not. They are terrified and angry that their families will be split apart; that kids who were born in Mexico, but have never lived there, might have to go back; that grandma will be hauled away.

Bottom line, a lot of it is being able to be a family in the same country.
So the entire family instead of being illegal in the US should move back to Mexico.

Jesus said: stop sinning. He didn’t say, it is OK if it is the easy way out.

As usual, the kids are in the middle and suffering because of the parent’s crime.
 
What really bugs me is this attitude that God is a white American male Republican. Do you really think that if you explained to Jesus that these people were too much of a strain on our “system” that he’d agree it was okay not to help them? He didn’t place limitations on our helping each other (I’m talking about honest men and women who just want to earn a decent wage to provide for their families, not potential terrorists and such).
 
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koda:
What really bugs me is this attitude that God is a white American male Republican. Do you really think that if you explained to Jesus that these people were too much of a strain on our “system” that he’d agree it was okay not to help them? He didn’t place limitations on our helping each other (I’m talking about honest men and women who just want to earn a decent wage to provide for their families, not potential terrorists and such).
Jesus said to obey the law. The only reason the Mexicans are in our country illegally is because they know they can get away with it. It has nothing to do with Jesus.
 
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Kendy:
Not all of my evidence has been anecdotal.
Really? What links have you posted to articles or laws to validate your claims? None.
I don’t exactly have journal articles handy, but I have made several nonanecdotal arguments. I do use anecdontes, like the fact that I know people who will die in Haiti to highlight the human costs of our policies, but if you think those are all my arguments. Then you are clearly not listening to me. So, if you are not going to listen to me, ,then don’t waste my time.
From where you sit, what you are doing is making assertions without any verifiable evidence to back them up. Then you write as though you resent the fact this has been pointed out.

Feel free to offer evidence to validate your claims. Otherwise your offering opinions–which is fine.

But you need to realize opinions do not equal fact;)
 
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Jeffrey:
If the Mexican Government actually cared about its residents… there wouldn’t be a ‘need’ to come over illagally.

That being said…** if those familes came over legally… I guess this wouldn’t be a problem**.
I agree with you Jeffrey, but they are here. We have to treat the situation correctly. I don’t think it is right, for example, to sieze the property of someone who has been here 10 years and owns a home. I also believe that illegal aliens that serve or have served in the military should be treated a little different (sarcastic understatement) than a gang-banger.

Make them pay a fine, and let them start some sort of process toward legalization.

Meanwhile, back on the border…BIG FENCE…felony for those who traffic in human beings, forge documents, enter illegally, etc. No meaningful legalization program will work, if we don’t stop the entry of future lawbreakers.
 
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koda:
What really bugs me is this attitude that God is a white American male Republican.
Bugs me too. From where I sit such comments detract from any argument the person using such a line might be trying to make.
Do you really think that if you explained to Jesus that these people were too much of a strain on our “system” that he’d agree it was okay not to help them?
I would never presume to know what Our Lord Jesus would say on any political issue.
He didn’t place limitations on our helping each other (I’m talking about honest men and women who just want to earn a decent wage to provide for their families, not potential terrorists and such).
Honest men and women don’t break laws. Lawbreakers do;)

From where I sit, this argument doesn’t have anything to do with the issue of this thread. As I recall, Christ did say something about a fair wage for a fair day’s work.

Sad folks complaining about the US immigration laws aren’t several thousand times angrier or more involved in improving the Mexican economy. All of this righteous indignation over our immigration laws seems to be a waste of energy from where I sit. You want to help these people coming up from Mexico?

Become a missionary to Mexico. Teach the people how to become involved in their local and national government. Teach people how to creat their own legal economic success and PLEASE, stop trying to tell the US what Jesus would say about x, y or z. If any of us knew what Jesus would say about any of this we wouldn’t be writing about it in these forums.
 
That is just plain offensive and rude.

koda said:
What really bugs me is this attitude that God is a white American male Republican. Do you really think that if you explained to Jesus that these people were too much of a strain on our “system” that he’d agree it was okay not to help them? He didn’t place limitations on our helping each other (I’m talking about honest men and women who just want to earn a decent wage to provide for their families, not potential terrorists and such).
 
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