Thousands protest immigration proposal

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koda:
What really bugs me is this attitude that God is a white American male Republican. Do you really think that if you explained to Jesus that these people were too much of a strain on our “system” that he’d agree it was okay not to help them? He didn’t place limitations on our helping each other (I’m talking about honest men and women who just want to earn a decent wage to provide for their families, not potential terrorists and such).
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This has nothing to do with race. I am Italian (Sicilian), that is not, technically, a white race (many of my relatives are very dark). This has everything to do with obeying the law. We are a nation of laws and no one is above the law. No one.
 
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gilliam:
So the entire family instead of being illegal in the US should move back to Mexico.
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But the entire family isn’t illegal; that’s the point. There may be 12 million illegals in this country with maybe half of them being children. However, the number of people affected by the situation is probably two to three times that - 23 to 36 million…

There are children who were brought here as infants who have never been to the country of their birth and know nothing about it. They’ve grown up in American and this is their home. You’ve got other kids and young adults who were born in this country with parents, brothers. sisters, grandparents, aunts, uncles, and cousins who are illegal.

Illegal aliens aren’t simply a commodity, they are families with varying situations. And I think that aspect is missing from the debate.
 
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Kendy:
First of all, while I did not read every word of the proposed legislation, I did give it a good skim and looked at some of the parts that peeked my interest.
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Oh, thats VERY obvious.
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Kendy:
Secondly, I don’t know how much more evidence you have provided than me, but I think I made some pretty good arguments. They are certainly no worst anyone else’s. But obviously, we all have our minds made up and are not going to be persuaded by each other arguments. So, I am bowing out of this discussion.
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I’m not the one claiming its a racist system, only the rich are given citizenship, ad nauseum. All I have said is read the proposed legislation, which you obviously ahve a link too.
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Kendy:
I will say one last thing, which I am increasingly disappointed by the moral priorities of many of the forum participants. When I was thinking about reverting, I encountered some really wonderful people on the apologetics section so I thought this was would be a great place to talk some committed catholics, but I have really changed my mind.

There is no easy way to say but I find that there is constantly righteous indignant over minor liturgical infractions, or down right silly stuff, like should men where their hair short. Or just plain crazy stuff, like let’s burn the heretics. But very little interest in issues of charity and social justice, which seem to me like an important component of our faith.

I honestly don’t understand a version of Christianity that cares more about whether women are getting their foot washed on Holy Thursday than whether Mexican families can feed their children. And when I speak about the very real stories of life in Haiti, I either get dismissed or told that my arguments are just anecdotal. This strikes me as very different than gospel high call to minister to the poor. I often don’t feel like we practice the same religion. Frankly, I don’t recognize your Jesus.

Perhaps, my arguments are indeed lousy (darn, all those years of competitive debate:( ). But I really think that many of you constantly run back and forth to every line in the CCC, but have forgotten the spirit of the law. Do justice and seek mercy. And more importantly, love your neighbor. Imagine if you were the mother of those Mexican children. How would you wanted to be treated? Imagine you were the malnutrition Haitian child. What would you want from your wealthy neighbor?

I come from an almost all immigrant community. I have yet to meet the immigrant who thinks the smuggler is the bad guy here. Maybe, you should listening to our testimonies.

You may now jump all over me for being uncharitable.

Kendy
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What reall bugs me to no end is this ‘all or nothing" attitude you and others have: either we let everyone in whenever they want or we’re totally against immigration in any form. Fortunately, the reall world doesn’t work like that. I guess in the fantasy world you and other protesters have created it does exist, as well as the self righteouness that you stand on Jesus’ side and the rest of us don’t.
 
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Thekla:
But the entire family isn’t illegal; that’s the point. There may be 12 million illegals in this country with maybe half of them being children. However, the number of people affected by the situation is probably two to three times that - 23 to 36 million…

There are children who were brought here as infants who have never been to the country of their birth and know nothing about it. They’ve grown up in American and this is their home. You’ve got other kids and young adults who were born in this country with parents, brothers. sisters, grandparents, aunts, uncles, and cousins who are illegal.

Illegal aliens aren’t simply a commodity, they are families with varying situations. And I think that aspect is missing from the debate.
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If the parents are illegal, they should move their family back to their country. Period.

I also don’t think the US should be granting citizenship to illegal alien’s children unless there is a proven hardship. We are one of the few countries left on this earth that do this, and it is beyond me to figure out why.

That the children know nothing of their country is not the fault of the US citizens, it is the fault of the parents. You are placing the burdon on the wrong person.
 
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gilliam:
If the parents are illegal, they should move their family back to their country. Period.

I also don’t think the US should be granting citizenship to illegal alien’s children unless there is a proven hardship. We are one of the few countries left on this earth that do this, and it is beyond me to figure out why.

That the children know nothing of their country is not the fault of the US citizens, it is the fault of the parents. You are placing the burdon on the wrong person.
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Whoa, that’s a bit on the extreme. I have no problem with giving the illegal aliens living here right now a chance to become citizens, then if they don’t deport them, but I am not in favor of just rounding them all up from the get-go and shipping them out.
 
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wabrams:
Whoa, that’s a bit on the extreme. I have no problem with giving the illegal aliens living here right now a chance to become citizens, then if they don’t deport them, but I am not in favor of just rounding them all up from the get-go and shipping them out.
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Your talking about a blanket amnesty. In other words, you are saying that since they got away with breaking the law, you are now going to dub them legal so they can be citizens and no longer illegal. That is slapping every legal immigrant, including my grandparents, in the face. These people many through blood, sweat and tears worked very hard to get here and waited patiently following the law.

You are also teaching the children of the illegals that it is OK to break the law, because sooner or later “the man” will relent and give you amnesty.

No, if they are here illegally, the only fair thing is that they should leave.
 
Are you sure about that? Blanket amnesty would be a waving of the magic government wand, forgiving everyone of their crime and allowing them to become legal residents. I’m guessing wabrams feels as I do…fine them.

Why set up a simple deport or amnesty dichotomy? I would definitely deport those (family or no family) who have commited other crimes - not parking or speeding violations, of course. Gang members, felons, etc. need to be sent packing.

But what about veterans or those who serve in the military? What would you do with the property of those who have bought a home and pay taxes? Do you think the government should sieze their property?
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gilliam:
Your talking about a blanket amnesty. In other words, you are saying that since they got away with breaking the law, you are now going to dub them legal so they can be citizens and no longer illegal. That is slapping every legal immigrant, including my grandparents, in the face. These people many through blood, sweat and tears worked very hard to get here and waited patiently following the law.

You are also teaching the children of the illegals that it is OK to break the law, because sooner or later “the man” will relent and give you amnesty.

No, if they are here illegally, the only fair thing is that they should leave.
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rlg94086:
I’m guessing wabrams feels as I do…fine them.
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Isn’t that similar to the plan proposed by John McCain and Ted Kennedy? I don’t know anything about this plan except for this line in yesterday’s Guardian
Their proposal would allow illegal immigrants to earn legal status through paying a fine, learning English, and settling back-taxes they would have paid had they been legally working.
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guardian.co.uk/international/story/0,1740221,00.html

I guess maybe there are other details to their plan which sound less reasonable?

Mike
 
My question is, how did these poor hard working illegal aliens have the money or time to go protest?
 
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gelsbern:
My question is, how did these poor hard working illegal aliens have the money or time to go protest?
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Protest is free. As for time, would you have them work 16 hours a day every day?

Mike
 
Why not, I do. 🙂 I work about 10 -12 hours a day on my Secular job which is 2nd shift, and I also have my ministry.
 
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gelsbern:
Why not, I do. 🙂 I work about 10 -12 hours a day on my Secular job which is 2nd shift, and I also have my ministry.
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I’m glad you have a ministry to fill up your spare time - though not everyone does. I’m sure you could find a few hours in your life for a one-off protest, if you felt strongly enough about it.

Mike
 
Why don’t the leaders of the counties such as Mexico and El Salvador provide decent jobs for their people? Why don’t the immigrants stay in their country of origin and build it up? Why doesn’t this country stop using cheap labor as a substitute for fair wages?

The idea that there are jobs in this country that Americans won’t do because they are too hard or too dangerous is an absolute LIE. Look at hard and dangerous coal mining, hard and dangerous logging, and unpleasant municipal sewer work. Americans take those jobs. Why? Because those jobs pay a decent wage. The ONLY reason foreign labor is needed in certain jobs is because the low wages are unacceptable to Americans. Employers and consumers need to get off the “crack cocaine” of cheap immigrant labor. Clean up and pay decent wages and prices. :tsktsk:
  • Kathie :bowdown:
 
The simplest way to handle the current illegal immigrant problem is to enforce the CURRENT FEDERAL LAWS in regards to employment. I travel extensively in Nebraska, Kansas and Oklahoma and see and talk with many of these illegals. They are many things, but stupid is not one of them. As soon as the word got out through their extensive grapevine that the jobs have dried up they would go back to their home country rather quickly. Therefore saving the Taxpayer an unbelievable expense in transporting them back to their home country.

Many of these illegals are fine individuals who are also Catholic. They are here for the economic opportunity and if that were to disappear through the enforcement of current labor laws and penalizing these MultiNationalCorporation that hire illegals, the problem would solve itself almost over night. The unspoken issue of this entire debate is how the MNC through their lobbying interest are doing their best to keep them here.

As a side note, about a month ago I found a wallet in Russell, Kansas that had over $1200 in it. After reviewing the inside contents, I saw that the owner was a Mexican with no US ID or drivers licence. I took the wallet to the police department and figured that was the best chance of this individual getting his money back. When I followed up with the Chief a few weeks later, he indicated this person came in the next day and was in the country illegally. I asked him why he would risk getting deported just to get the money. The answer from the Chief said it all. “They know we wont deport them once they get a couple of hundred miles from the U.S. Border unless they were wanted for some other crime.”
It doesnt take a genius to conclude that if we would only inforce our current laws the illegals would quickly adapt and seek legitimate immigration.
 
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gilliam:
Your talking about a blanket amnesty. In other words, you are saying that since they got away with breaking the law, you are now going to dub them legal so they can be citizens and no longer illegal. That is slapping every legal immigrant, including my grandparents, in the face. These people many through blood, sweat and tears worked very hard to get here and waited patiently following the law.

You are also teaching the children of the illegals that it is OK to break the law, because sooner or later “the man” will relent and give you amnesty.

No, if they are here illegally, the only fair thing is that they should leave.
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No, go back and re-read my post. I didn’t say a blanket amnesty; I said give them a chance to become citizens, if they don’t, THEN deport them.

I also agree with rlg94086 that they should be fined if they are going to stay in the US.

Don’t pull that slapping my ancestors in the face stuff: half my family came over just like your family and had to slug it out to make a living.
 
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MikeWM:
That sounds just about right 🙂 (says the card-carrying Labour party member - if it’s still good enough for Tony Benn, it’s good enough for me 😉

I’ve been fortunate enough to see him in person a couple of times in the last year. He is exactly the same as he seems on tv, I’m pleased to say 🙂 I don’t agree with him on everything, but I do find his passion refreshing.

Mike
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Ahh Tony Benn, he only came into the focus of my eye through his position in regards to the Stop the War coallition, he too is one of the few political figures that I do admire.

I wish that I could see more of politics - there is a Youth Parliament in Trafford, but unfortunately it is regarded as a bit of a joke… 😛 🙂
 
I don’t believe we need to support law-breaking, but, many of these people are dutiful individuals who come here to escape squalor and to have a better life for their children. And most of these folks are our co-religionists too! We need to practice a bit more Christian charity toward them, no matter what.
 
it is absolutely unbelieveable to me how truly selfish some people are coming across. People we are CATHOLICS called to serve the lesser of man, but God forbid it cost you a dime. when there are disasters across the globe we are usually the first responders, but what so many of you fail to realize is that these countries are disasters in themselves. What so many see of Mexico is Cancun, Acapulco, Cozumel, Playa Del Carmen, Mexico City and Cuernavaca. What you dont see is the chicken farms outside of Monterey where a house is nothing more than a few Uhaul boxes taped together. or an old gutted bus. What you dont see are the kids who cant go to school because they too have to work to provide for their family and eat that week. You dont see the countless kids who live in orphanages we wouldnt put our dogs in, because their parents who are alive cant afford to feed them. You dont see the shacks, the barefeet, the famished little bodies and the horror of having never seen a doctor and what that does to a persons body. How can you honestly fault these people, these parents who only want to feed and clothe their kids, who accept 3 dollars an hour because its more than they can make in Mexico. Yes their needs to be reform, but you cant criminalize 11 million people and ship them back to the hell they escaped and split up families, create more orphans. I live in Houston and someone earlier mentioned gang bangers. I can guarantee you, and our police chief has said it himself that there are far more Houston gang bangers than immigrants causing the problem here.Our crime rate more than tripled after the people from New Orleans moved here, and they are red blooded Americans. Its just like any mix of people, there are good and their are bad, so why punish the majority for the sins of the minority. People are fighting for their rights and their beliefs and I will be joining them on April 10th to march and protest this racist law disguised as democracy.
 
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