Thousands protest immigration proposal

  • Thread starter Thread starter bones_IV
  • Start date Start date
Status
Not open for further replies.
40.png
Libero:
Ahh Tony Benn, he only came into the focus of my eye through his position in regards to the Stop the War coallition, he too is one of the few political figures that I do admire.
I can’t recommend his diaries enough. The earlier ones are about events too long ago for me to remember - but are still good. The volumes about the 80s and 90s are riveting. I got the man himself to sign my copy of his diaries from the 90s (called ‘Free At Last’) 🙂 🙂

Mike
 
40.png
TarAshly:
it is absolutely unbelieveable to me how truly selfish some people are coming across. People we are CATHOLICS called to serve the lesser of man, but God forbid it cost you a dime. when there are disasters across the globe we are usually the first responders, but what so many of you fail to realize is that these countries are disasters in themselves. What so many see of Mexico is Cancun, Acapulco, Cozumel, Playa Del Carmen, Mexico City and Cuernavaca. What you dont see is the chicken farms outside of Monterey where a house is nothing more than a few Uhaul boxes taped together. or an old gutted bus. What you dont see are the kids who cant go to school because they too have to work to provide for their family and eat that week. You dont see the countless kids who live in orphanages we wouldnt put our dogs in, because their parents who are alive cant afford to feed them. You dont see the shacks, the barefeet, the famished little bodies and the horror of having never seen a doctor and what that does to a persons body. How can you honestly fault these people, these parents who only want to feed and clothe their kids, who accept 3 dollars an hour because its more than they can make in Mexico.
As sad as that is and as much as I agree with you we should take these people in, there needs to be some order in the process, not the free for all we have now.
40.png
TarAshly:
Yes their needs to be reform, but you cant criminalize 11 million people and ship them back to the hell they escaped and split up families, create more orphans.
No one is going to criminalize 11 million people, unless they fail to register. As far as registering goes, it’s probably going to end up having the illegal aliens pay a fine and that’s it, they get their citizenship. No one is going to split up families; I don’t even think that was proposed in either of the immigration bills.
40.png
TarAshly:
I live in Houston and someone earlier mentioned gang bangers. I can guarantee you, and our police chief has said it himself that there are far more Houston gang bangers than immigrants causing the problem here.Our crime rate more than tripled after the people from New Orleans moved here, and they are red blooded Americans. Its just like any mix of people, there are good and their are bad, so why punish the majority for the sins of the minority. People are fighting for their rights and their beliefs and I will be joining them on April 10th to march and protest this racist law disguised as democracy.
If you would get your facts straight, you would see that the only people out of the 11 million not eligible to stay and would be rounded-up are those with criminal records (felonies like robbery, rape, etc.). There is nothing racist about it. You and everyone else are up in arms because they happen to have tan skin, so you think it must be a race issue. I guarantee that if it was Canadians and not Mexicans, you wouldn’t be pulling the race card or even caring for that matter.
 
Once again Wabrams youre wrong. I have read the facts, I attended a lecture about it last night and whats going to happen all depends on who wins. you can stick your head in the sand if you want to, but trust me, this isnt going to be pretty if it passes. and If it were canadians, I dont think it would be an issue at all. you need to get *your *facts straight before you criticize the understandings of others. Have you been to Mexico? experianced it first hand? worked in an orphanage down there? I have. Has immigration, legal or otherwise, effected your life at all? it hasnt mine. I still have my job, as a ranch hand, I still had my job, as a student, I still have my education and financial aide from the government.
40.png
wabrams:
As sad as that is and as much as I agree with you we should take these people in, there needs to be some order in the process, not the free for all we have now.

No one is going to criminalize 11 million people, unless they fail to register. As far as registering goes, it’s probably going to end up having the illegal aliens pay a fine and that’s it, they get their citizenship. No one is going to split up families; I don’t even think that was proposed in either of the immigration bills.

If you would get your facts straight, you would see that the only people out of the 11 million not eligible to stay and would be rounded-up are those with criminal records (felonies like robbery, rape, etc.). There is nothing racist about it. You and everyone else are up in arms because they happen to have tan skin, so you think it must be a race issue. I guarantee that if it was Canadians and not Mexicans, you wouldn’t be pulling the race card or even caring for that matter.
 
40.png
TarAshly:
it is absolutely unbelieveable to me how truly selfish some people are coming across.
I agree. Especially those who think they know better than everyone else what a person should think on this immigration issue.
People we are CATHOLICS called to serve the lesser of man, but God forbid it cost you a dime.
I’m going to assume this is intended to be sarcasm.
when there are disasters across the globe we are usually the first responders, but what so many of you fail to realize is that these countries are disasters in themselves.
Then why aren’t you and like minded people lobbying the US government or NATO or other governments to provide aid?
What so many see of Mexico is Cancun, Acapulco, Cozumel, Playa Del Carmen, Mexico City and Cuernavaca.
Never been to any of those places. No desire to ever go.
What you dont see is the chicken farms outside of Monterey where a house is nothing more than a few Uhaul boxes taped together. or an old gutted bus. What you dont see are the kids who cant go to school because they too have to work to provide for their family and eat that week. You dont see the countless kids who live in orphanages we wouldnt put our dogs in, because their parents who are alive cant afford to feed them. You dont see the shacks, the barefeet, the famished little bodies and the horror of having never seen a doctor and what that does to a persons body.
Again, if this is the state of life for so many, why aren’t you and others doing something about instead of asking Americans to allow people to break the law?
How can you honestly fault these people, these parents who only want to feed and clothe their kids, who accept 3 dollars an hour because its more than they can make in Mexico.
If they come here legally, I have no problem with them coming at all.
Yes their needs to be reform, but you cant criminalize 11 million people and ship them back to the hell they escaped and split up families, create more orphans.
Not easily. But yes, we can.
 
40.png
TarAshly:
Once again Wabrams youre wrong. I have read the facts, I attended a lecture about it last night and whats going to happen all depends on who wins.
You haven’t read the proposed law at all, have you?
40.png
TarAshly:
you can stick your head in the sand if you want to, but trust me, this isnt going to be pretty if it passes.
You can run around yeliing “the sky is falling,” but it’s going to be hilarious when the bill passes and not too much changes for those already here, except for the fact they now have access to all the services every US citizen has access too.
40.png
TarAshly:
and If it were canadians, I dont think it would be an issue at all.
Kinda what I thought you would say.
40.png
TarAshly:
you need to get *your *facts straight before you criticize the understandings of others.
I do, thank you. It appears your understandings is what you want the bill to be: evil and heartless.
40.png
TarAshly:
Have you been to Mexico? experianced it first hand? worked in an orphanage down there? I have.
Yes to everything but working in an orphanage.
40.png
TarAshly:
Has immigration, legal or otherwise, effected your life at all? it hasnt mine. I still have my job, as a ranch hand, I still had my job, as a student, I still have my education and financial aide from the government.
But those aren’t the issues at hand.
 
You know I hate to go here, but I have to explain my position. I have been writing letters to my congressmen and senators for years, ever since I lived there. I have worked with student aid commissions to send aide over there. Its not easy, but I am doing my part. I wrote letter after letter after letter to government officials about what I observed in the orphanages in Mexico and basically the response I got was it was none of our business, like some poster said earlier, Mexico’s problem not mine. Could you look into the eyes of a little child whos hungry and barefoot and tell her “youre cute and im sorry for what youre going through, but youre in Mexico so youre not my problem. oh, and dont even think about trying to come to America unless you know english and can afford $1800 per family member to get permission.” I couldnt. I am doing all I can right now to help. are you? my husband and I plan on doing lots more once we have the funds, including adopting as many children from Mexico as we can. we are working hard. And someday, like all of us, I will have to answer to God about how I lived my life and how I served man. and I for one will have no shame on this particular issue because I have worked to help them and I have done all of it with God as my guide. As a legionary and as an American, but ESPECIALLY as a Catholic I think more needs to be done and more can be done. Read my signature, for me this wraps up the way I try to live my life. I am not very good at it all the time, but I do my best and I dont think its too much to ask others to do the same and open their hearts and minds.
 
40.png
TarAshly:
You know I hate to go here, but I have to explain my position.
That’s the whole point of a debate, isn’t it?
40.png
TarAshly:
I have been writing letters to my congressmen and senators for years, ever since I lived there. I have worked with student aid commissions to send aide over there. Its not easy, but I am doing my part. I wrote letter after letter after letter to government officials about what I observed in the orphanages in Mexico and basically the response I got was it was none of our business, like some poster said earlier, Mexico’s problem not mine.
And the law makers are right. Unless we are attacked by Mexico or they start to commit genocide, our government can’t do anything to them.
40.png
TarAshly:
Could you look into the eyes of a little child whos hungry and barefoot and tell her “youre cute and im sorry for what youre going through, but youre in Mexico so youre not my problem. oh, and dont even think about trying to come to America unless you know english and can afford $1800 per family member to get permission.” I couldnt. I am doing all I can right now to help. are you? my husband and I plan on doing lots more once we have the funds, including adopting as many children from Mexico as we can. we are working hard. And someday, like all of us, I will have to answer to God about how I lived my life and how I served man. and I for one will have no shame on this particular issue because I have worked to help them and I have done all of it with God as my guide. As a legionary and as an American, but ESPECIALLY as a Catholic I think more needs to be done and more can be done. Read my signature, for me this wraps up the way I try to live my life. I am not very good at it all the time, but I do my best and I dont think its too much to ask others to do the same and open their hearts and minds.
I feel for these kids, but we can’t make their lives better if we have a free for all immigration policy. If we do that, then they could very well come into a country just as bad as the one they left.

Instead of protesting how bad the law is, why don’t you and like minded people come up with an alternative to present to law makers instead of protesting the current law and proposed law?
 
40.png
wabrams:
You haven’t read the proposed law at all, have you?

You can run around yeliing “the sky is falling,” but it’s going to be hilarious when the bill passes and not too much changes for those already here, except for the fact they now have access to all the services every US citizen has access too.

Kinda what I thought you would say.

I do, thank you. It appears your understandings is what you want the bill to be: evil and heartless.

Yes to everything but working in an orphanage.

But those aren’t the issues at hand.
  1. Yes I have read the proposed law. Several times in fact.
  2. I dont find anything about this law funny, or even slightly amusing. I think the results will be devestating to those affected.
  3. I said that because I havent heard anyone propose building a 700 mile wall around the canadian border.
  4. my understanding of the bill is just that, my understanding of it. I am reading it and taking it for what I believe it to be. that doesnt make me wrong and you right. as much as you would like it to be.
  5. If you have seen what I had seen, I dont think we would be having this argument in the first place, unless you have a really strong stomache and cold heart. The orphanage issue is huge, and a grounding for what I believe. Living down there changed my whole perspective on life. We in America have NO IDEA what poverty is. we are so spoiled and sheltered its disgusting.
  6. oh but dear sister those are the issues at hand. other posters have stated that they living off the government, taking our tax money, our jobs and wages and benefits away from Americans.
 
40.png
TarAshly:
You know I hate to go here, but I have to explain my position. I have been writing letters to my congressmen and senators for years, ever since I lived there. I have worked with student aid commissions to send aide over there. Its not easy, but I am doing my part. I wrote letter after letter after letter to government officials about what I observed in the orphanages in Mexico and basically the response I got was it was none of our business, like some poster said earlier, Mexico’s problem not mine.
I must have missed that post you’re referring. Nice to see you’ve been active in letter writing. Might be time to try something else if you feel so strongly about the issue.
Could you look into the eyes of a little child whos hungry and barefoot and tell her "youre cute and im sorry for what youre going through, but youre in Mexico so youre not my problem.
No, but I can look into that child’s eyes and say, “here’s what you need to learn in order to improve your life here in Mexico for you and your family” while teaching them how to apply their skills to do so.
oh, and dont even think about trying to come to America unless you know english and can afford $1800 per family member to get permission."
Of course not. Especially since the people bringing the truckloads of illegals across the border charge way more than that. I also won’t look any child in the eye and tell them it’s okay to break the law.
I couldnt. I am doing all I can right now to help. are you?
Sure am.
my husband and I plan on doing lots more once we have the funds, including adopting as many children from Mexico as we can.
Good for you! We adopted a girl from India.
we are working hard.
Good for you!
And someday, like all of us, I will have to answer to God about how I lived my life and how I served man. and I for one will have no shame on this particular issue because I have worked to help them and I have done all of it with God as my guide. As a legionary and as an American, but ESPECIALLY as a Catholic I think more needs to be done and more can be done. Read my signature, for me this wraps up the way I try to live my life. I am not very good at it all the time, but I do my best and I dont think its too much to ask others to do the same and open their hearts and minds.
Opening hearts and minds to the plight of any group of poor people is a good thing to do. Advocating the deliberate violation of US immigration law isn’t:)
 
40.png
TarAshly:
it is absolutely unbelieveable to me how truly selfish some people are coming across. People we are CATHOLICS called to serve the lesser of man, but God forbid it cost you a dime. when there are disasters across the globe we are usually the first responders, but what so many of you fail to realize is that these countries are disasters in themselves. What so many see of Mexico is Cancun, Acapulco, Cozumel, Playa Del Carmen, Mexico City and Cuernavaca. What you dont see is the chicken farms outside of Monterey where a house is nothing more than a few Uhaul boxes taped together. or an old gutted bus. What you dont see are the kids who cant go to school because they too have to work to provide for their family and eat that week. You dont see the countless kids who live in orphanages we wouldnt put our dogs in, because their parents who are alive cant afford to feed them. You dont see the shacks, the barefeet, the famished little bodies and the horror of having never seen a doctor and what that does to a persons body. How can you honestly fault these people, these parents who only want to feed and clothe their kids, who accept 3 dollars an hour because its more than they can make in Mexico. Yes their needs to be reform, but you cant criminalize 11 million people and ship them back to the hell they escaped and split up families, create more orphans. I live in Houston and someone earlier mentioned gang bangers. I can guarantee you, and our police chief has said it himself that there are far more Houston gang bangers than immigrants causing the problem here.Our crime rate more than tripled after the people from New Orleans moved here, and they are red blooded Americans. Its just like any mix of people, there are good and their are bad, so why punish the majority for the sins of the minority. People are fighting for their rights and their beliefs and I will be joining them on April 10th to march and protest this racist law disguised as democracy.
Yes, ignorance is blissful, but turning away the poor who arrive on your doorsteep is just terrible… remember, our duty to charity is more than just putting some money in a collection basket… 😦
 
TarAshly said:
1. Yes I have read the proposed law. Several times in fact.
2. I dont find anything about this law funny, or even slightly amusing. I think the results will be devestating to those affected.

Now we’re getting somewhere. Show us from the law the portions you disagree with, please.
 
40.png
wabrams:
That’s the whole point of a debate, isn’t it?

And the law makers are right. Unless we are attacked by Mexico or they start to commit genocide, our government can’t do anything to them.

I feel for these kids, but we can’t make their lives better if we have a free for all immigration policy. If we do that, then they could very well come into a country just as bad as the one they left.

Instead of protesting how bad the law is, why don’t you and like minded people come up with an alternative to present to law makers instead of protesting the current law and proposed law?
because I am not a politician. I am simply a citizen who has seen both sides, all I can do protest and get my point of view out there for others to see and hope and pray that those more educated than me can come up with a better more democratic solution. I agree it can not be a free for all. but something has to be done to streamline the process, make it affordable and accessable to all of them who want to come over here and work. Like it or not they are contributing to this society in more ways than one, including our economy and we can not just deport them all. Someone mentioned that the ones that are here now will be given amnesty and asked to pay a fine, if its a small fine thats fine, theres going to be proccessing fees etc. that need to be taken care of. However, the way our government and the people of this country have treated them before, I doubt they are going to be so willing to come forward. They dont trust our system and I dont blame them. Also I dont think it should be a requirement that they learn english to live here, they have a right to hold onto their culture.
 
My point exactly, thank you.
40.png
Libero:
Yes, ignorance is blissful, but turning away the poor who arrive on your doorsteep is just terrible… remember, our duty to charity is more than just putting some money in a collection basket… 😦
 
40.png
TarAshly:
  1. Yes I have read the proposed law. Several times in fact.
  2. I dont find anything about this law funny, or even slightly amusing. I think the results will be devestating to those affected.
I second Geladin: show us where you disagree
40.png
TarAshly:
  1. I said that because I havent heard anyone propose building a 700 mile wall around the canadian border.
Because they aren’t busting through the border along with potential terrorists, VAST amount of narcotics (and I’m not talking about weed), and taking pop shots at Federal Agents.
40.png
TarAshly:
  1. my understanding of the bill is just that, my understanding of it. I am reading it and taking it for what I believe it to be. that doesnt make me wrong and you right. as much as you would like it to be.
  2. If you have seen what I had seen, I dont think we would be having this argument in the first place, unless you have a really strong stomache and cold heart. The orphanage issue is huge, and a grounding for what I believe. Living down there changed my whole perspective on life. We in America have NO IDEA what poverty is. we are so spoiled and sheltered its disgusting.
If you understood what the bill really said, not what you want it to say, then we wouldn’t be having this discussion.
40.png
TarAshly:
  1. oh but dear sister
Try again, there’s a stem on the apple.
40.png
TarAshly:
those are the issues at hand. other posters have stated that they living off the government, taking our tax money, our jobs and wages and benefits away from Americans.
I have not personally been affected, as in couldn’t get a job. I did sit back and watch my college tuition rise every semester and watch the number of Mexican students increase, especially the ones whos parents came here illegally and their kids now get to have free rides b/c they’re Hispanic and/or get in state tuition fees.
 
Sorry…brother. I disagree with the fence mainly and the issue of possible deportation. Terrorism is Bush’s favorite word isnt it, its like if he says that everyone is just going to go “Ok! good idea” and your comment about canadians is my point about racism, they’re coming from Mexico so they are bringing the drugs and the terrorists not the canadians. No drugs have ever crossed the Canadian border? No terrorist ever has? prove it.
40.png
wabrams:
I second Geladin: show us where you disagree

Because they aren’t busting through the border along with potential terrorists, VAST amount of narcotics (and I’m not talking about weed), and taking pop shots at Federal Agents.

If you understood what the bill really said, not what you want it to say, then we wouldn’t be having this discussion.

Try again, there’s a stem on the apple.

I have not personally been affected, as in couldn’t get a job. I did sit back and watch my college tuition rise every semester and watch the number of Mexican students increase, especially the ones whos parents came here illegally and their kids now get to have free rides b/c they’re Hispanic and/or get in state tuition fees.
 
40.png
TarAshly:
because I am not a politician. I am simply a citizen who has seen both sides, all I can do protest and get my point of view out there for others to see and hope and pray that those more educated than me can come up with a better more democratic solution.** I agree it can not be a free for all. but something has to be done to streamline the process, make it affordable and accessable to all of them who want to come over here and work.**
Isn’t that what I have been saying for two days now?
40.png
TarAshly:
Like it or not they are contributing to this society in more ways than one, including our economy and we can not just deport them all. Someone mentioned that the ones that are here now will be given amnesty and asked to pay a fine, if its a small fine thats fine, theres going to be proccessing fees etc. that need to be taken care of. However, the way our government and the people of this country have treated them before, I doubt they are going to be so willing to come forward. They dont trust our system and I dont blame them.
Well, why don’t people like yourself help then understand the benefits of coming forward and assist them in doing so?

And if they don’t, find them and deport them.
40.png
TarAshly:
Also I dont think it should be a requirement that they learn english to live here, they have a right to hold onto their culture.
So learning the language of the country you move to is giving up your culture? Apparently it didn’t hurt the cultures of the Italians, Polish, Germans, Koreans, Japanese, etc. If you moved to France, would you refuse to learn French?
 
and as far as the college tuition. I am in college now, I have watched the tuition go up and the hispanic population go up. the hispanic population is the reason I will have a job, as I want to be an ESL teacher. their culture has done nothing but enrich my life and the beautiful melting pot that is Texas. and as far as tuition goes, it has very little to do with Mexicans. it has a lot more to do with available funding. So what are you saying? Mexicans shouldnt be allowed to go to college? I am not white either my friend, I am native american, should I be allowed a college education? I can receive funding because I am native american, should they take that away from me because I am not white?
40.png
wabrams:
I second Geladin: show us where you disagree

Because they aren’t busting through the border along with potential terrorists, VAST amount of narcotics (and I’m not talking about weed), and taking pop shots at Federal Agents.

If you understood what the bill really said, not what you want it to say, then we wouldn’t be having this discussion.

Try again, there’s a stem on the apple.

I have not personally been affected, as in couldn’t get a job. I did sit back and watch my college tuition rise every semester and watch the number of Mexican students increase, especially the ones whos parents came here illegally and their kids now get to have free rides b/c they’re Hispanic and/or get in state tuition fees.
 
I will help them in anyway I can, I will NEVER turn a human being over to be deported forget about, because I would be ashamed to look my maker in the eyes at the time of my judgement if I did that. I have had students that I knew were illegal, you honestly think I would have turned them over? not enough money on earth could make me do that.
40.png
wabrams:
Isn’t that what I have been saying for two days now?

Well, why don’t people like yourself help then understand the benefits of coming forward and assist them in doing so?

And if they don’t, find them and deport them.

So learning the language of the country you move to is giving up your culture? Apparently it didn’t hurt the cultures of the Italians, Polish, Germans, Koreans, Japanese, etc. If you moved to France, would you refuse to learn French?
I would learn French to get around, of my own accord. But it isnt easy and can take years to learn. Did you know that English is the most difficult and complex language there is to learn? Thats why there are ESL teachers, so we can teach them to function and communicate in an English speaking country, but it shouldnt be a requirement. Kids used to get paddled for speaking spanish in schools in Texas and Georgia. Im sure other states, but those are the only two I have experianced it with.
 
40.png
TarAshly:
I am not white either my friend, I am native american, should I be allowed a college education?
Wow, I am too. I was born in the US. I was able to go to college too. Not because I’m a native American, but because I was accepted into a school and paid the tuition.
I can receive funding because I am native american, should they take that away from me because I am not white?
Oh, you mean you’re an American Indian? Now I understand. I’m not an American Indian. I am a native American though;)
 
40.png
TarAshly:
Sorry…brother. I disagree with the fence mainly and the issue of possible deportation.
OK, now we’re getting somewhere. Why is it you disagree with the fence and *possible *deportation? (So much easier to have a civil debate when you actually say what you don’t like).

BTW, interesting you say “possible deportation,” because up until that post your contention was they were just going to round everyone up and deport them.
40.png
TarAshly:
Terrorism is Bush’s favorite word isnt it, its like if he says that everyone is just going to go “Ok! good idea”
Terrorism was one of many reasons.
40.png
TarAshly:
and your comment about canadians is my point about racism, they’re coming from Mexico so they are bringing the drugs and the terrorists not the canadians. No drugs have ever crossed the Canadian border? No terrorist ever has? prove it.
You’re putting words into my mouth: I never said drugs or terrorists hadn’t come in from Canada. But you don’t have tens of billions of dollars worth of cocaine and heroine coming across the Canadian border, mainly because it’s harder to get it into Canada then the US when you can ship it up straight up from South America, Central America, and/or Mexico where it’s grown. And we are grabbing a lot of people from the border that aren’t Hispanic; I’ve got friends on the border patrol and its amazing what they see.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Back
Top