Trump's incompetence makes Andrew Cuomo's performance look better than it is

[dvdjs]

These deaths were not cCovid casualties and the proverbial s@#$- it gong to hit the fan because this probably has been going on elsewhere.

People have been trying to force some downward adjustment of the the death tool for a bit, starting with nonsense from Dinesh D’Sousza. I have no doubt that it will make waved in the conservative echo chamber.

When it is all over, and the CDC counts the death toll by the standard methods that it uses for seasonal flu, the rate will almost certainly be dramatically higher. At the moment we we mainly count hospital deaths, although some jurisdictions try to count home and hospice deaths as well. At the outset, it was unlikely that death COVID-19 derived from COVID-19 related clotting disorders that led to stroke, and other disorders were counted. CDC makes a separate count of of COVID-19 patients who succumb to contract pneumonia and die. There are many more deaths related to COVID-19 than are being counted. Indeed, it has been noted that, were we to count seasonal flu deaths the way we are counting COVID-19 death, then the typical annual count would be an order of magnitude less, with ~3500 in an typical year. And yet, it may very well be that Trump stans will try to make an issue of the count and call it fake, and a hoax.

What is surprising is this: we have 90,000 dead.
And we quibble about ±20% in counting schemes, we chatter on about who is dying, and have the most amazing discussion about threats to liberty, and have abandoned common ideas of epistemology. The nation, as it now stands, cannot agree to take prudent, measured steps in the face of a pandemic - even with excellent examples from other nations staring us in the face. This nation as it now stands, could not have survived the Great Depression; it could not have won WWII. It is not clear that it will survive this pandemic. What a pity.

 

[Jeanne_S]

Who’s quibbling Not I. Could it be you? Like I said stay tuned …
Actually now that I think about it,the real pity here is how the left have politicized this virus.Its non stop Trump blaming,gaslighting,don’t believe your lying eyes people situation. NP et all would rather see the economy take a nose dive and allow suffering of the populace in hopes of taking back control.Its diabolical and talk about echo chambers.Rather than hurl that at the conservatives maybe take a look in the mirror.

 

[dvdjs]

the left have politicized this virus

Hardly. The discussion of how government officials are acting in a crisis is to be expected. But Trump could not have been more clear about his own politicization back in early March with his gross comment about the Grand Princess.

It is absurd to suggest that there are people who would like the economy to take a nose dive,

 

[dvdjs]

That is an opportunity that some already have plans not to waste. Consider

What were had been discussing was an alleged willful desire to make the economy nose-dive.
You may disagree with the Green New Deal folk about what is good or bad for the economy. But the idea that that they are trying to make the economy nose dive - in particular to make it nose dive to gain power - is absurd.

 

[Jeanne_S]

I wouldn’t call it absurd as much as I would typical,from the usual,suspects.
Go ahead I know you must have the last word…

 

[dvdjs]

typical,from the usual,suspects.

It is hard to imagine what informs your perspectives on the people that you criticize so harshly.
I think that it is a safe bet that none of our political leaders want our economy to nose dive.

 

[Annie]

Yes, I think the Green New Deal would cause our economy to nosedive. Yes, I think they know that and don’t care.

 

[Jeanne_S]

The Ends justify the means…

 

[dvdjs]

Yes, I think they know that and don’t care.

Wow. It is difficult to imagine what gives that impression. Or the impression that GND would make the economy “nose dive”.

The Ends justify the means

Not sure why you think that. But I think that people in politics what what is good for the people they serve.

 

[Jeanne_S]

The notion that these politicians are actually public servants has long gone out the window.They are self serving and do what’s in their own best interests This is why Trump is so reviled by the status quo politicians. He isn’t t one of them ,he’s actually had to sign the front of a paycheck not just the back of one.

 

[dvdjs]

They are self serving and do what’s in their own best interests

There self interests are served by appealing to constituents.

This is why Trump is so reviled by the status quo politicians. He isn’t t one of them

Actually he is one par excellence. But his self-service is different, because it is predicated on the con of enough of the people enough of the time.

 

[Jeanne_S]

Nonsense.So sad that you are buying into this malarkey.Trump’s base are just gullible ,easily swayed ,right? How pretentious

 

[dvdjs]

Trump’s base are just gullible ,easily swayed

That is what you are saying, not me. Not by a long shot.

 

[7_Sorrows]

much

@dvdjs

I checked post #79, but there was no criteria or any link. Just 2 replies from you.

 

[dvdjs]

I checked post #79, but there was no criteria

Pleasw recall:
@Annie asked:

What are your criteria for doing well vs doing badly …?

I replied:

Lower and declining rates of infection and death.

 

[7_Sorrows]

I think I was referring to the criteria of determining the cause of death when it
comes to numbers.

Thanks for jogging my memory on the criteria you posted.

 

[PetraG]

When were restaurants and bars closed? When were people told to stay home?
When were subways and busses stopped?

Covid-19 arrived in Europe around the last 2 weeks in January. There had to have been cases in February in New York. By March, New York had to have known they
had a problem. How did the cases multiply so quickly?

You’re kind of making the point that is the title premise of the thread:
“Well, this was unexpected. This was something that came out of China, and it hit us and many other countries. You look at the numbers; I see the numbers with just by watching you folks. I see it — it’s over 100 different countries. And it hit the world. And we’re prepared, and we’re doing a great job with it. And it will go away. Just stay calm. It will go away.” Pres. Donald Trump, March 10, after meeting with Senate Republicans on Capitol Hill

7-8 states did poorly. 40-42 did not.

Let’s not get into hubris. This pandemic is not over yet.

The notion that these politicians are actually public servants has long gone out the window.They are self serving and do what’s in their own best interests This is why Trump is so reviled by the status quo politicians. He isn’t t one of them ,he’s actually had to sign the front of a paycheck not just the back of one.

In what way is Donald Trump not a politician? Because he’s never worked for anybody but himself? I don’t know that I’d call that a qualification, exactly.

Overall, Cuomo and Trump are elected officials in a liberal democracy, and like the leaders of other countries they took steps that, in retrospect, they would have taken differently now than they did then. The biggest misfortune was the delay in widespread and reliable testing, but I don’t personally know what practical realities lead to that result. (I do know it wasn’t Barack Obama’s fault; I don’t know that what happened on Trump’s watch could not have happened just the same on Obama’s.)

Anybody here who claims they could outperform what the elected officials have done have forgotten, I think, what the sentiments were in early March. My state was lucky, because the outbreaks going on in the state of Washington were taken seriously here before community transmission became serious here. We could have had a few super-spreader events and found ourselves in a totally different situation because we closed down 10 days later than we wish we had.

Most importantly: We still just do not know how this will turn out, not in terms of economic mortality (and yes, failed businesses can represent the loss of a lifetime of labor and a precarious situation for many families per failure) nor in terms of human mortality.

 

[PetraG]

Nonsense.So sad that you are buying into this malarkey.Trump’s base are just gullible ,easily swayed ,right? How pretentious

That is a charge that flies both ways. (It is far easier to see the biases we don’t have ourselves.)

 

[7_Sorrows]

No, we don’t know how long this will last. It definitely isn’t over yet. However, it is doubtful the rest of the country will experience the number of deaths like New
York and New Jersey.

This could go off and on for 2 years - the number of cases and deaths decreasing and at times increasing.

Once they knew how infectious covid-19 was, they possibly could have realized how dangerous the subway system was, busses, amtrak, etc.
Connecticut, Massachusettes, Pennsylvania, New York and New Jersey are so
connected and obviously, we can see how the covid-19 travelled so quickly.

Next time, we will probably shut down more quickly and totally, rather than gradually and hesitating to disrupt people’s lives.

It makes me angry people are so quick to condemn and vilify President Trump.
He was going by what people were telling him. He is not a doctor. He is not a
scientist. He probably was getting lots of information from many different people
and getting a mixture of ooinions.

@PetraG

 

[PetraG]

It makes me angry people are so quick to condemn and vilify President Trump. He was going by what people were telling him. He is not a doctor. He is not a scientist. He probably was getting lots of information from many different people and getting a mixture of opinions.

I think we’ll do better if I do not get into what I think I fairly consider President Trump’s war on scientific expertise, including medical expertise. I understand that he did what he understood, which was to prop up financial optimism. He shows a shocking lack of respect for expertise he doesn’t have himself, however.

You also might ask yourself if you extend the President’s political opponents the same understanding about their human limitations that you so freely bestow on the President.

That hardly says that Cuomo did a poor or great job. I don’t really know; I haven’t been keeping track of what his options were and what kind of a job he did.

Our governor assessed our need for ventilators and decided to send our state’s allotment to the state of New York. She was the first to do that. I was proud of her for that, because she was willing to put New York’s known and immediate need ahead of a need we in our state might have had but did not have yet. That was a decent thing to do, and I think people on both sides of the aisle here felt proud of it. (She had requested the allotment from the federal inventory when it seemed possible we could need that many and were gearing up to have extra ICU capacity, but when the need didn’t materialize she gave them up.)