'White Europe': 60,000 nationalists march on Poland's independence day

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The rise of anti-semitism in Eastern Europe is pretty much a product of the indigenous people, not Muslim immigrants. Fear of George Soros plays on a general fear of a Jewish international conspiracy.

That wasn’t an ad hominem. Even if I was intending to insult people, merely insulting people is not an example of an ad hominem attack. It is a fact that Slavic people were largely not considered white until recently.
 
Regular_Atheist said:
That wasn’t an ad hominem. Even if I was intending to insult people, merely insulting people is not an example of an ad hominem attack. It is a fact that Slavic people were largely not considered white until recently.
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You were intentionally trying to mischaracterize people on this forum.
Regular_Atheist said:
The rise of anti-semitism in Eastern Europe is pretty much a product of the indigenous people, not Muslim immigrants. Fear of George Soros plays on a general fear of a Jewish international conspiracy.
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It is from the elite white left, what is called the far right, and from Muslims who hate Jews.
 
I’m not trying to mischaracterize anyone. If you’re going to advocate a definition of nationality bound up with ethnicity, then you’re an ethno-nationalist. If you’re then going to defend nationalist sentiment bound up with a notion of whiteness, that only white individuals can be a certain nationality, then I’m going to call you a white nationalist. I use this only as a referential term.

In your second point you’re suggesting that it is a left-wing elite who are wrongly accused of being right-wing that are antisemitic, along with a Muslim population. This is incorrect. This Anti-Semitism is a fairly broad phenomenon in Eastern Europe, not confined to the small population of Muslims. It also isn’t that surprising given the history of that part of the world.

I’m not really interested in playing your left-wing or right-wing political identity game. I find it funny that it’s always people who would claim to hate identity politics who pull this kind of stuff, wanting to distance themselves from others politically literally on the basis of identity.
 
Regular_Atheist said:
I’m not trying to mischaracterize anyone. If you’re going to advocate a definition of nationality bound up with ethnicity, then you’re an ethno-nationalist. If you’re then going to defend nationalist sentiment bound up with a notion of whiteness, that only white individuals can be a certain nationality, then I’m going to call you a white nationalist. I use this only as a referential term.
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Since you’re only using this as a “referential term” and are claiming innocence here—and since you came on here and blurted out “the white nationalists on this thread” give me an example of a post on this thread that is white nationalist.

Also, I should note: If you’re goingto call me a white nationalist, you should know that would pose significant problems AND wouldn’t be in line with the racial slurs your colleagues on the left (along with deportation threats) have leveled against me…
Regular_Atheist said:
I’m not really interested in playing your left-wing or right-wing political identity game
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:roll_eyes:

You’re the one who brought it up!
Regular_Atheist said:
I find it funny that it’s always people who would claim to hate identity politics who pull this kind of stuff, wanting to distance themselves from others politically literally on the basis of identity.
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Oh boy, you KNOW you’re in trouble when your post starts with I FIND IT FUNNY…

Really, I can’t stand identity politics.
Regular_Atheist said:
In your second point you’re suggesting that it is a left-wing elite who are wrongly accused of being right-wing that are antisemitic, along with a Muslim population. This is incorrect. This Anti-Semitism is a fairly broad phenomenon in Eastern Europe, not confined to the small population of Muslims. It also isn’t that surprising given the history of that part of the world.
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Eastern Europe may have problems with extremism to some degree, but they also know a conquering force when they see one. It’s refreshing to see a part of the world that doesn’t have its head in the sand.

But as far as Anti-Semitism goes, yes, radical Islamic circles are a big driver and they have debated Isreal’s right to exist in the hallowed halls of Oxford, which is not in Eastern Europe.
 
Just a little background.
  1. Poland has been a multi-ethnic, multi-religiuos Commonwealth until the end of the 18th century. It was not a metlingpot, as all minoties retained their cultures, religions etc. It included Catholics, protestants, orthodox, muslims, jews, and probably druids. All of these groups coexisted for about 300 years.
  2. One of the Commonweatlh’s main enemies was the Ottoman Empire (muslim) and its central asian allies (the Tartars) Poland was at war with them (mostly) for about the same amount of time. Just like the rest of the European powers, Polan allied itself with Turkey when it was convenient (wars against Russia, for example)
3, When Jan Sobieski took his armies to rescue Vienna in 1683 his armies most likely included Polish Tartar regiments, all Muslims.
  1. Since the end of the 18th centuty, Poland hs been under occupation by the Russian and the Germans, who did their utmost to eradicate the Polish state, culture, language, natinality, etc.
5, The history of that period consists of Poland’s continual rebelions against their oppressors. It is only recently that the Poles are enjoying independence and liberty and they are not about to be told by outsiders who they are, who they should be and what they should do.
  1. The current onslought of propaganda against the Poles is political. Since the Poles don’t want to accept refugees from Africa and the Middle-East, those groups that no other country wants to accept, the Eruopean Union has begun an ant-Polish propaganda campaign. Hence, a celebration of Poland’s independence is now called a Nazi rally. To make it more fun, it is the former, current and crypto-nazis that are doing this.
  2. All the leftist media in the West view’s Poland’s independce as inconventient, hence all the critistism.
 
Recently at the airport of Warsaw you could see the cards-banners where Lviv and Vilnius fixed as the part of Poland.( The motive is that as if the citizens are enlightened in history info.) and at November 11, in the Polish capital of Warsaw the March of nationalists was going on to mark the independence day of Poland, and there were people with a banner that says “Remember about Lviv and Vilnius.” 🤔
I can conclude that some Polish politicians in a mean and vile way, setting their own people against the Ukrainians, and Poland there are more than a million Ukrainian workers that also would like to work freely and safely. Emotions are already seething in some Polish nationalists.
 
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the situation has become more acute because of populist politicians.there were already rare cases of hooliganism on the part of the Poles.We also did not have a smooth history , but instead of unite and look for something that brings us closer in the most recent time, emotions are raging on historical themes.
Those emotions are not constructive but distructive.
 
I am really not interested in starting a debate on this topic, but …here goes.

Ukrainian nationalists desecrated the graves at the Jewish cemetery in Poland

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medium.com
 
Vandalism with all sorts of swastikas especially on Jewish cemeteries is often paid-vandalism or artficial-scenarios just to discredit some one.
For some it is successfully helping for new emigration to Israel, for others , for example for the Polish extreme nationalists it helps to discredit Ukrainians.
 
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I have nothing against the Jews, and I have nothing against the Poles, (I study Polish with the teacher, by the way) but with swastika’s I think it’s time to do more thorough researches after the accidents with the swastika’s in Jewish cemeteries. Such cases frequently are forcing to emigrate the people who previously would not have dared to emigrate.
Sometimes as if by order, a discrediting message instantly goes through international media to the whole world.

I wonder why it was in Poland that Hitler decided to build an Auschwitz…
In no other country but in Poland.
In case with that accident, it was possible to kill two rabbits, to remind about the Jewish question and to demonize the Ukranian nationalists.
Hitler , also had a mustache which were managed by some one. Ukraine nationalists are discredited, but not the people who give the commands to these Polish radicals.
It should not be forgotten that the third part of the Polish population, most of whom were peaceful people, perished in the Second World War. Poland had huge losses, and it all began with similar emotions, and these emotions have artificially degenerated to wash the brains of a multimillion people.
 
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Wait. Are you saying that someone managed HItler’s mustache to discredit the Ukrainians?
 
Athanasiy said:
I wonder why it was in Poland that Hitler decided to build an Auschwitz…
In no other country but in Poland.
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I’d like to deal with just this. You understand that portions of what were post-WWI Poland were in fact former Austro-Hungarian and German territory ceded to Poland. Oświęcim (Auschwitz) in particular was part of the Austro-Hungarian Empire until 1918, and seeing as Hitler pretty explicitly rejected any territorial concessions that were forced upon Germany or Austria by the Treaty of Versailles, that area was by right Germany territory. So in the minds of the Nazis they weren’t building a death camp on Polish territory, they were building a death camp on what they viewed as Germany territory (seeing as Austria had been annexed during the Anschluss).

According to Wikipedia, the first Auschwitz camp was in fact built to house Polish prisoners, and the Jewish camp was built later.
 
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Auschwitz was a major rail hub, so I’d argue that that along with relatively close proximity to Krakow are the reasons the camps were built there.
 
Whatever it’s worth, I have read that the Nazis put Auschwitz where they did so the German people didn’t witness what was going on there. The Nazis had experienced a reverse in their Jewish policy at one point when they conducted a roundup of Jewish men. Jewish women protested mightily and a lot of Germans sympathized with it. Generally, they entrained Jews in decent accommodations for “resettlement” so it looked as if they were simply being to that.

That’s not to say no Germans were aware that “awful things” were going on in the east, but they could at least believe the lies if they didn’t witness it themselves.

The Nazis, of course, didn’t care what the Poles thought about anything.
 
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Ridgerunner said:
Whatever it’s worth, I have read that the Nazis put Auschwitz where they did so the German people didn’t witness what was going on there. The Nazis had experienced a reverse in their Jewish policy at one point when they conducted a roundup of Jewish men. Jewish women protested mightily and a lot of Germans sympathized with it. Generally, they entrained Jews in decent accommodations for “resettlement” so it looked as if they were simply being to that.

That’s not to say no Germans were aware that “awful things” were going on in the east, but they could at least believe the lies if they didn’t witness it themselves.

The Nazis, of course, didn’t care what the Poles thought about anything.
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Auschwitz was Austro-Hungarian territory until 1918. While it was mainly Polish, there was a significant German population (part of the reason for Germany grabbing up chunks of Poland was because of the ethnic German populations in areas like Auschwitz). So it’s hard to imagine that Germans living in the area wouldn’t have known something about the big concentration camps. I don’t really buy the theory at all. My theory is that it was close to Krakow, with excellent rail facilities, so they could grab up Polish political prisoners and partisans, and then later Jews from Krakow with relative ease. The Nazis were nothing if not efficient.
 
I find it peculiar that a majority Catholic nation like Poland would fall prey to nationalistic and racist sympathies which are in direct contradiction to Church teaching.
 
Ukrainian land will cost a very dear price to anyone who wants to take it from Ukrainians. The Ukrainians, though poor, but always had some of the best soldiers in Europe. Тhey went to war with one of the most powerful armies in the world. So, dear neighbours, if you are our friends, then be our friends and act friendly. Because, it’s not a good thing to have such enemies as the Ukrainians is a bad choice for any body. So, let us be friends.
Poles are also working in Germany, Netherlands, England, but they love their country, and will not let any body to conquer it, so the same with Ukrainians , when it comes to the talking about the sovereignty of the state borders.
 
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