White woman who hit black man during argument about whether he could be on the beach is charged with a hate crime

[Nepperhan]

Virtually all assaults and murders are ‘hate crimes’
The punishments on the books for those crimes are more than adequate.

Yes and no. For a hate crime we look to see if there was an inappropriate motivation, not just rage or revenge. There could just be aggravation of a crime already on the books.

 

[PaulinVA]

Try going to a private beach area and see if you don’t get called out.

But, it’s not a “civilian’s” job to ask for beach passes or whether someone belongs.

I grew up in Florida, so I get the private beach thing. I also live in an area with county parks with pavilions you can reserve to picnic at. Unless I had a reservation at one a and people were there, I can’t imagine walking up to someone at one of the pavilions asking if they belonged there.

 

[ThinkingSapien]

They hate the person for one reason or another, I’m going by the definition of hate.

Oh. In a legal context, that isn’t a hate crime. Perhaps in a conversation context it is. But in referenced to legal charges the term isn’t used that way.

A crime is a hate crime when a motivation is the victim’s actual or perceived race, color, sex. religion, or national origin. Some states or cities may include additional classifications. While laws tend to be given short, catchy names it isn"t always easy to infer the law from the shorthand name. Ex: one might not realize the North Carolina “Bathroom Bill” limits any anti-discrimination measures aimed at employers (not just for LGBT).

Referencing a recent thread, the Columbus man that stabbed an Autozone worker because he was looking for someone white to kill committed a hate crime because race was part of his motivation in selecting a victim. But a person that decides to stab and rob the first person they see coming out of a bank has committed a crime (perhaps 2 crimes) but not a hate crime.

 

[gam197]

gam197:

Try going to a private beach area and see if you don’t get called out.

But, it’s not a “civilian’s” job to ask for beach passes or whether someone belongs.

I grew up in Florida, so I get the private beach thing. I also live in an area with county parks with pavilions you can reserve to picnic at. Unless I had a reservation at one a and people were there, I can’t imagine walking up to someone at one of the pavilions asking if they belonged there

No it’s not but they constantly do it. We lived in a town with a public access, boat ramp next to a private beach. This comes up time and time again at town meetings and the people on the lake do not like the public access even though it a very small ramp near the beach.

When you launch your boat, you are questioned regularly. I would not dare go on the private beach area.

 

[ThinkingSapien]

But, it’s not a “civilian’s” job to ask for beach passes or whether someone belongs.

I want to point out the Campbell and his associates were not alleged to be entering a private beach. Donoshaytis accosted them in the public areas in which all people could be. It was noted that she had not addressed other people walking through the area this way, only Campbell and his associates.

 

[Miketdobbs]

This absolutely IS NOT a hate crime. He was belittling her, mocking her, provoking her and filming her. Should she be charged with assault? Of course. Just because she makes statements while in a state of agitation, does not make this a hate crime. Her assault was not based on the fact that he is black but based on the fact that he was completely and utterly instigating her.

If there is other evidence that she has has previous animosity towards people of color, then that would be a different story. But looked at in a bubble, (because all we have is a short video) this incident would not rationally constitute a hate crime.

 

[PaulinVA]

Just because she makes statements while in a state of agitation, does not make this a hate crime. Her assault was not based on the fact that he is black but based on the fact that he was completely and utterly instigating her.

Well, he asked if it was because he was Black and she said yes. Should we not take her word for it?

 

[Annie]

A one time ago, I used to get mad at other drivers, and want to let them know their transgressions. My wife made me see that I’m not the enforcer of all laws or things that aggrieve me.

Some people think that they are, though. They want people removed from public areas they think are private or require a pass or sign up. Think get into altercations with people barbecuing. What’s the common denominator? White people telling Black people what they can and can’t do.

This is not just a white people telling black people what to do thing.

What is videotaped is usually white people telling black people what to do.

And you yourself said you used to have the urge to tell people what to do in the paragraph above!

 

[ThinkingSapien]

Of course. Just because she makes statements while in a state of agitation, does not make this a hate crime.

Her statements could contribute to the establishment of mens rea. Telling the men that she wants to see their passports would support an accusation that the way that she perceived their nationality is an element of the interactions.

An attorney I know often says “if you don’t talk, you might walk.” Practicing that might have helped her out. She did practice silence when a reporter asked her for comment after she left court though.

 

[Miketdobbs]

According to the video, she asked if he was going to kill her and he responded “Is it because i’m black”?

The issue of race (according to the video) was first brought up by the man.

Im only responding to the video… Not of other evidence that has since been brought forward.

 

[gam197]

Miketdobbs:

Of course. Just because she makes statements while in a state of agitation, does not make this a hate crime.

Her statements could contribute to the establishment of mens rea. Telling the men that she wants to see their passports would support an accusation that the way that she perceived their nationality is an element of the interactions.

Where are all this other comments taken place? I have yet to see this longer video and only have the short video that was posted on Dail Mail. The video doesn’t show this.

 

[PaulinVA]

What is videotaped is usually white people telling black people what to do.

Is that because Whites aren’t confronted, or they don’t care to video it?

 

[Nepperhan]

According to the video, she asked if he was going to kill her and he responded “Is it because i’m black”?

The issue of race (according to the video) was first brought up by the man.

Maybe he was confronted because he is black? I think that brought up the issue of race!

 

[Annie]

Considering that I have been confronted this way and did not videotape it, I would say the latter.

I can see, considering how this worked out, why black people would video incidents like this. One poster said she ended up telling the police that the man involved had hit her!

TBH, I find this women’s behavior totally bizarre and senseless. She got an idea into her head and could not let go of it. She said she felt like the man wanted to kill her and then she hit him! That makes no sense!

 

[gam197]

Annie:

What is videotaped is usually white people telling black people what to do.

Is that because Whites aren’t confronted, or they don’t care to video it?

Whites are definely confronted. People around lakes, water are very territorial, that is my observation.

 

[Miketdobbs]

That leads to a dangerous way of thinking. Is every confrontation with somebody from another race based on race? Of course not. Because of the polarizing issue in the US right now, too many people (including the media) seem so quick to assume that any confrontation with a member of another race is race related.

 

[PaulinVA]

That leads to a dangerous way of thinking. Is every confrontation with somebody from another race based on race? Of course not. Because of the polarizing issue in the US right now, too many people (including the media) seem so quick to assume that any confrontation with a member of another race is race related.

Yeah, sometimes it isn’t racial. But, I’m amazed how often it appears to be.

 

[Miketdobbs]

I am not denying that often it is race related. But race related crimes are not going up. Its not increasing. Its just people are more aware and our eyes are opened to the injustice more and also things are being videotaped more. I just think everything has to be looked at objectively before we say its race related. Obviously, its just my opinion that the video does not prove the issue has to do with race. I’m only going by what the video shows. Does she say it has to do with him being black? Yes she does. Does this make it about race? Not necessarily at all. She looks like she’s in a state of mental distress. She’s visually upset. She might feel violated by having a camera pointed at her and she responds immediately (and almost without thinking) to his question “Is it because i’m black”. This could possibly show a racial bias… but I would need more evidence than just this video.

 

[Nepperhan]

That leads to a dangerous way of thinking. Is every confrontation with somebody from another race based on race? Of course not. Because of the polarizing issue in the US right now, too many people (including the media) seem so quick to assume that any confrontation with a member of another race is race related.

Unlike many people here, I have been to Winnetka on many occasions. If you think that there was no racial angle to the confrontation, you are mistaken.

 

[Feanor2]

AWW. Poor old racist lady.

Maybe charging her will teach her a lesson.