Did the lying media cost Trump the election?

[otjm]

Or they could just be telling the truth. Conservatives are digging their own grave right now.

Well of course! Antifa and BLM are the way the US needs to go!

You might want to go back a bit in history - say, about 4 to 5 months ago, and listen how the House was going to gain Democrats, with some estimates up to 15 seats… and how the Democrats were going to flip governorships, and state legislators. And how we as a nation were going to defund police, and how we were going to close out prisons…

Your research is giving you an “F” as a student.

 

[StudentMI]

Your research is giving you an “F” as a student.

Funny. Because all around me I see the conservative movement and far more importantly the Church losing members.

But keep denying it, keep clinging to stolen election conspiracy theories.

 

[Freddy]

That was pretty much my position as well. I never much liked Trump personally.

The thing that I hear all the time (and I’m off to a bbq in an hour so I guarantee I’ll hear it again this afternoon), is this: He is the best those guys could come up with?

It is simply head-scratchingly, gob-smackingly, jaw-droppingly incomprehensible that anyone, let alone half the country, could vote for a…(and I’ll leave out all the epithets I would normally use in not-so polite coversation)…man like Trump.

OK, I get that a lot of people vote for policies and not necessarily for the guy who is going to sit behind the Resolute desk. But the policies are Republican policies to some extent and you could have put a tailor’s dummy in the oval office and the policies would be just the same. But he’s the guy you want to represent you? I honestly don’t get it.

I lean to the left and so do some of my friends. And we’ll all have a go about various conservative policies (and we’ve got the conservatives running state and federal governments here in NSW so we’ve a lot to whinge about). But all the leaders that we’ve had have been up to the task. They have always been responsible, intelligent people. Maybe I wouldn’t invite some of them over for a beer, but they all deserved our respect.

But Trump? The man is a buffoon.

 

[Pattylt]

To the original OP statement…

Anyone who has looked at the history of journalism in the US and thinks the media today, with its biases and slants and accusations and yellow journalistic tendencies and thinks today is something new and different from the past…oh my gosh are you wrong. Thomas Jefferson was right back then and it’s not much different now! However, it was actually worse back then. People had no ability to research to confirm or deny what the papers told them. They did have more papers and everyone knew which paper leaned one way to the other and they were perhaps a bit more skeptical because they had no way to research what was printed.

Approaching any article…by your side or the other side with skepticism is the only way anyone should ever approach an article. Perhaps the one wisdom of old age is that we older Americans may be a tad more aware of this approach!

The truth is in there…you just can’t trust one source or one side on any story…you have to put in the work yourself…and that’s part of the problem. sigh…

 

[Freddy]

StudentMI:

Or they could just be telling the truth. Conservatives are digging their own grave right now.

Well of course! Antifa and BLM are the way the US needs to go!

You might want to go back a bit in history - say, about 4 to 5 months ago, and listen how the House was going to gain Democrats, with some estimates up to 15 seats… and how the Democrats were going to flip governorships, and state legislators. And how we as a nation were going to defund police, and how we were going to close out prisons…

Your research is giving you an “F” as a student.

Here’s an honest question. Where on earth does the GOP go from here? Dump Trump and lose the millions who voted for him? Hang on to the circus and wait it out for four years? What happens if Trump goes renegade and runs as an independent (obviously the worse case scenario for the Republicans)?

What happens when we see his tax returns and it’s as bad as some people think it might be? Do you just pretend that he’s not there and ignore him? Does the GOP go back to putting up someone thoughtfull and intelligent who can string sentences together and will represent your views without the dog and pony show we’ve had for four years?

 

[JimG]

Well, Walter Cronkite was not without bias or a point of view. But he seldom let it show on air. None of today’s cable networks would want him.

I used to get three newspapers–a morning paper and two evening papers. Thry were not unbiased but mostly they kept the editorializing on the editorial page

 

[JimG]

I would ask–where does the Democratic Party go from here? Obviously Joe Biden is not the future of the party. Is Kamala Harris? If so, that’s trouble for eveerybody.

 

[Freddy]

The truth is in there…you just can’t trust one source or one side on any story…you have to put in the work yourself…and that’s part of the problem. sigh…

Well said, Patty. Yeah, the truth is out there. And those of us of a (ahem) certain age can well remember the partisanship that papers used to exhibit back in the day. The Daily Mirror was the paper of choice of my parents in the UK and I’m surprised it didn’t have a hammer and sickle on the masthead.

The problem now is that anyone with an internet connection and a camera can put themselves out there as a pundit. And it becomes difficult to sift the wheat from the chaff. I can’t believe that a significant proportion of people get their news from Facebook. What the…? Don’t they know that information is fed to you dependent upon the number of times you click on certain links and the type of information you look for via Google? It becomes self perpetuating. You only get fed the views with which you already agree.

Most of the ‘facts’ that are passed on as facts are no more valid than if you said ‘This guy in a bar told me…’. But whose got the time to check them? Someone made a claim about immigration laws earlier (in this thread?) and it took me an hour to call up umpteen pages of information to work out what the actual position was. And I’ve got a notepad in front of me covered in motes and figures so I could do that. And the info certainly didn’t tally with the claim. But I’ve got time to do it. Not many do.

It’s all bumper sticker slogans and one minute sound bites. Drives me insane.

 

[Freddy]

I would ask–where does the Democratic Party go from here? Obviously Joe Biden is not the future of the party. Is Kamala Harris? If so, that’s trouble for eveerybody.

Obviously. The torch will be passed on to a younger generation. And if she’s as bad as you think she might be then that’s good news for you. But the GOP? Who’s up next?

 

[JimG]

I have no idea. I’ve always been a registered Democrat.

 

[Freddy]

Sorry, Jim. From some earlier comments I assumed you were a Republican. My bad. But then, there have been so many comments about people not being able to vote for the Dems because of their abortion position then…when was the last time you voted for them?

 

[Margaret_Ann]

You’re still younger than me.

 

[JimG]

Well, I voted for JFK, LBJ. Hubert Humphrey, skipped McGovern, voted for Jimmy Carter, but after that the Democrats started to go too far on abortion advocacy. Never changed my registration. Maybe someday they will come around to a pro-life stand.

 

[1ke]

I am hoping and praying that Nikki Haley runs for President this next time.

Oh dear God.

 

[Nononony]

You’re still younger than me.

Well, I only know of him. But I’ve officially changed my mind… if I’m going to be 20 I want to come be 20 with you during the time you were 20. Particularly if you were born toward the beginning of his term. I’ve always been one of those “I was born in the wrong era” people.

 

[pnewton]

The fact that no negatives of Joe Biden were allowed to be widely disseminated by them had to have had an impact, and then all they ever put out were negatives of President Trump, Biden was portrayed as the 3rd coming. (Obama was the 2nd of course).

How would you know? I thought you did not follow the major networks.

To vote for a political party that openly supports the destruction of the family because you don’t like the personality of the other candidate is misguided.

I totally agree, but I also think you are dead wrong about this being why people did not vote for him. That is the problem with trying to read people’s minds and intent and assign motivation. You are almost always wrong.

I am so glad you have practiced law.

He did not say that he practiced law. He only need be literate.

 

[otjm]

He did not say that he practiced law. He only need be literate.

Some of the attorneys representing Trump are some of the best in the land. Given the opinion stated, I will happily stand by my comment.

Anyone who takes the position that the whole of the defense work is flim flam is simply operating on one of two positions - ignorance or skewed opinion.

Two attorneys general - Oregon and Washington - issued a letter recommending that a major move to mail-in voting should not be done, both noting that it had taken Oregon and Washington 4 to 5 years to work the kinks out - and with a lot of time to address and correct any problems which could invite fraud.

I seriously have no doubt that had the demand come from Republicans with a negative pushback from Democrats, and Trump won, we would see the same challenges being made. Like it or not, (and I detest comments coming from Trump or presumed to come from him or at his direction) he has the legal right to contest; and given some of the issues of results, grounds to contest.

Having said that, I do not expect him to win, if for no other reason than that the time to be able to address all possible evidence and get to trial, let alone an appeal, simply don’t appear to be within the realm of possibility.

Further, the “analysis” of the evidence is being done by people who literally have no access to it. And I don’t care if that is analysis by the left media or the right media. it is a bit like the public “judgement and sentencing” being done concerning the death of George Floyd. Given that there have been leaks from two autopsies which conflict, the vast majority of “decision” in the media and by numerous people that he was murdered simply dismiss whatever does not fit their narrative, and it is being taken by the public as a fait accompli, never mind the innocent until proven guilty.

 

[pnewton]

Anyone who takes the position that the whole of the defense work is flim flam is simply operating on one of two positions - ignorance or skewed opinion.

I was thinking of the first. part. If a suit is dismissed, or worse, not heard, it is neither ignorance or a skewed opinion to say that it was tossed. In many of the cases, the judge openly said there was nothing substantial. These are part of court records. The may be great lawyers. But if I had a ball player with a .050 batting average, I would not need to be a baseball coach to say that he was a poor batter.

If there are court cases out there for us to read the media is hiding, please enlighten us. Tell us which states have overturned the election results.

 

[otjm]

f there are court cases out there for us to read the media is hiding, please enlighten us. Tell us which states have overturned the election results.

Considering that the decision of a trial judge is not a final decision, I have no idea why you are asking me to provide a final decision.

If you actually read what I have written, you will find that there is a vast difference between “there was no fraud” and “the results of the election are overturned”. As AG Barr said, he has not seen sufficient evidence of fraud to overturn a state election - which means just that. A judge did rule that the files of the Dominion machines were not to be erased; and given that the order may have been given to the wrong entity (and I am not following it at this time) the files may by now be erased - and so there would be no evidence, or the files may still be in existence, which may mean that there is evidence of fraud, or not.

i am just sitting on the sidelines watching; there appears to be some evidence of fraud, but as AG Barr stated, there does not appear to be sufficient evidence. And the charges coming from those who detest Trump are just that - opinions based on feelings. How about we let the cases resolve to final decisions - not the decision of some trial judge, which may or may not be appealed?

 

[otjm]

Dump Trump and lose the millions who voted for him?

It is possible that Trump supporters might refrain from voting; for sure they are not going to be voting for Socialists.

First we have to get past the Georgia vote; if they put in two Republican Senators, it is entirely possible the House could be turned Republican majority in 2 years. Failure to accomplish a blocking in the Senate will allow the Democrats to push their agendas - and from the results of this election, it does not appear that America wants that.

As to 4 years from now - no one really knows if Trump might try to make a comeback. And even if he does, it will depend on who else is trying to head the ticket. I would put my hopes on Nikki Haley; I doubt that Huckabee would run again, but he would be my second choice, with Rubio a far third.

Haley has been a successful Governor; and she has experience in foreign affairs from her time in the UN, and appears to have both intelligence and delivery (and a titanium spine) to be able to take on international matters. I also think she has much the same goals as Trump did, and could actually be Presidential about it.

While I really like Huckabee, I am not sure he could win - Democrats would react to a Baptist preacher in much the same fashion as to a Catholic who actually follows the Church. And Rubio is bright, articulate, but I see as a bit too old school Republican - perhaps I am wrong, but I am not sure. I don’t see anyone else with the charisma - and as much as I like Pence and his experience, I don’t see him lighting any fires - which I think Haley would do. Someone is going to have to be able to pull at least some centrist Democrats to win.

What happens when we see his tax returns and it’s as bad as some people think it might be?

He has had big players in big accounting firms doing his work. They will be at the forefront of any cases New York is trying to bring, and will have an exceedingly hard time proving any criminality. In the civil side, either taxes were pushed beyond the edge of the envelope of possibility within tax law, or they were legitimate. If they were beyond the edge, he will pay more taxes and that will end it. If they were legitimate, it will end with a whimper which the liberal media will simply ignore, and move on to something else. Tax law is not sexy.

Does the GOP go back to putting up someone thoughtfull and intelligent who can string sentences together and will represent your views without the dog and pony show we’ve had for four years?

He is 74; he will be 78 by the time of the next election - assuming that he is still alive and desires to run. And as wealthy as he may be, he will still need other support. There are 4 years for others to garner the support they will need to run. We will probably see some indications in about 2.5 years.

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