Muslim fury grows at Pope's speech

[Ridgerunner]

I hope fewer and fewer people believe there is actually such a thing as the “Moslem Street”. All of these protests are bought and paid for by the Islamic clerics who dominate the finances of Islamic states. If tomorrow, they decided to pay a quarter million people to protest the demotion of Pluto from the list of planets, and burn images of the sun, that’s exactly what we would see. It’s not too hard to incite with money a people kept in ignorance, poverty and a perpetual state of frustration and misdirected hatred, by the same clerics who pay them to demonstrate and to kill, and who are resonsible for their ignorance, poverty, frustration and hatred.

They realize, as many of us, unfortunately, do not, that, with these protests, the clerics are speaking to the western media who, they know, hate Christianity and Western Culture as much as they do. If not for the media and their anti-western intellectual and political allies, the clerics would keep their money and nothing at all would happen on the “Moslem Street” except the everyday sale of chickpeas. The Media/Mullah alliance members have a mutual interest in humiliating, oppressing and, they hope, ultimately stamping out Christianity.

Someday, hopefully, most people will see the Media/Mullah alliance for what it is. In the meanwhile, we should not buy into this particular slander of the Pope. It isn’t the first, nor will it be the last.

 

[Jennie66]

I did not judge the Pope, but merely expressed my opinion about the wisdom of using inflamatory words in his speech

It’s really hard to tell from your comments …are you talking about the actual speech Pope Benedict made at the University of Regensburg, or the parsed, taken out context re-edit being passed around by the mainstream media??? Sounds like the latter to me. In case you are interested in the one the Pope actually gave, it is available in complete format on the Vatican website, appearing soon at a computer near you complete with footnotes.

Finally, these parting words: God chose Benedict XVI to be His vicar. Benedict the XVI is His vicar.

 

[estesbob]

I did not judge the Pope, but merely expressed my opinion about the wisdom of using inflamatory words in his speech, knowing the fragile state of relations with the Muslim world.

.

The Pope said that religion should not be used as an excuse for violence. How is that incendiary?

 

[Eden]

How many people in the USA have the makings of an effigy of a Muslim leader or his picture at the ready to burn?

I’m not sure I understand why you are asking. I don’t know of anyone who has materials, let alone the desire in the USA to burn effigies.

 

[Eden]

Turn the other cheek hasn’t set into their formation process, from the looks of it.

Turn the other cheek doesn’t mean that we should blind ourselves to the danger the West faces from radical Muslims.

 

[StMarkEofE]

The Pope said that religion should not be used as an excuse for violence. How is that incendiary?

If you remove the religion from the Muslim fanatics you have essentially removed their reason for making war on the west.

 

[Ridgerunner]

Turn the other cheek hasn’t set into their formation process, from the looks of it.

I have a moral right to turn my cheek to abuse if I wish. I may bare my throat to a terrorist’s butcher knife if I wish. I have absolutely no moral right to volunteer some other person for that treatment. None whatever. And those who make excuses for those who wish to commit crimes against others, and refuse to take every possible action to stop them, and doom victims to “turning the other cheek” (or their throat) are complicit in those crimes.

 

[james1441]

while there has been general disagreement with the popes words coming from scholars and politicians in the middle east, ive noticed the actual street protests and violence has been limited to the pakistan/india border area and the west bank (and a few rallys in turkey i believe) Yet there has been nothing of the sort in israel, iran, saudi arabia, syria, lebanon, UAE, kuwait (i havent heard anything on iraq… they probably havent even gotten news of it with no electricity around) so clearly this poses an interesting question… why just these certain areas are reacting with tempers yet the rest of the muslim world is acting with restraint and calm? i’ll throw in a quick theory here… it may not so much be the popes words but more so the fact that people in these regions are using this as an excuse to vent anger. lets not forget that hindu dominated india and muslim dominated pakistan have been fighting bitterly over the kashmir region for some time. Also the palestinians have been struggling against the israelis. any thoughts on this?

 

[kevinfraser]

do you think he might find himself in danger?

You mean from the people who are threatening to start a war, the people threatening to blow up churches, or the reason for the security lockdown at the Vatican right now?

although I have read a few of his books…

Oh really? Which ones?

he has not captivated me with his speech and message, as Pope JP2 did…

From the tone of your posts, I get the feeling nothing short of SpongeBob SquarePants could do that

I am not judging this pope, but …

…you are judging this Pope. We get it. Since he’s Christ’s appointed representative on earth that is actually the worst idea EVER. I do have to tell you that in case you don’t know. I also have to warn you to watch your step. I don’t think you want to be questioning God’s taste in leaders.

he should be preaching a message of unity

Against what? Let me get this right. You, “whatevergirl” believe that the Pope should join forces with evil by preaching a message of unity with it. OK, go on.

…not badmouthing another religion.

Uh huh. Tell me, what EXACTLY should he have said to praise the evil required by Mohammed in Islam? Perhaps a sentimental slide show featuring the mug shots of the 19 hijackers from 9/11 doing Ken Burns dissolves over “Wind Beneath My Wings?” Or would that be over the top? Maybe a few quiet unhandings.

We as faithful Catholics should be hearing a message of hope, not that his message wasn’t hopeful

…and she’s swaying…

but it also seemed to sway to condemning another faith.

…Coming off the rails…

I ask this question sincerely…of you all here…

And here comes the payload…

is it right to condemn another faith

We have positive ID on a troll under ‘whatevergirl’

, or should we just witness our loving ways and emulate Christ, in order to bring people to Christ?

But not a very good troll.

I have a difficult time pointing the finger at someone who is not Christian and saying…‘you’re wrong, and you’re going to Hell.’

And well you SHOULD. … Don’t do it!

Know what I mean?

Huh? Oh, you mean ME? No, I got nothing.

Can someone help me better understand that??

Not in a million leap-year only Sundays, whatevergirl. If that is in fact your REAL name.

You might want to start with reading the whole speech, and just keep the sniping to yourself.

 

[dulcissima]

You mean from the people who are threatening to start a war, the people threatening to blow up churches, or the reason for the security lockdown at the Vatican right now?
Oh really? Which ones?
From the tone of your posts, I get the feeling nothing short of SpongeBob SquarePants could do that
…you are judging this Pope. We get it. Since he’s Christ’s appointed representative on earth that is actually the worst idea EVER. I do have to tell you that in case you don’t know. I also have to warn you to watch your step. I don’t think you want to be questioning God’s taste in leaders.
Against what? Let me get this right. You, “whatevergirl” believe that the Pope should join forces with evil by preaching a message of unity with it. OK, go on.
Uh huh. Tell me, what EXACTLY should he have said to praise the evil required by Mohammed in Islam? Perhaps a sentimental slide show featuring the mug shots of the 19 hijackers from 9/11 doing Ken Burns dissolves over “Wind Beneath My Wings?” Or would that be over the top? Maybe a few quiet unhandings.
…and she’s swaying…
…Coming off the rails…
And here comes the payload…
We have positive ID on a troll under ‘whatevergirl’
But not a very good troll.
And well you SHOULD. … Don’t do it!
Huh? Oh, you mean ME? No, I got nothing.
Not in a million leap-year only Sundays, whatevergirl. If that is in fact your REAL name.

You might want to start with reading the whole speech, and just keep the sniping to yourself.

What are you on? Your replies are totally condescending and way over the top. She isn’t a troll. She is a real person, and a Catholic who posts here quite regularly.

I think our pope’s speech was brilliant, but your defense of it leaves a lot to be desired.

 

[kevinfraser]

What are you on?

I’m not judging the pope, but…
‘you’re wrong, and you’re going to Hell.’

You’re asking me what am I on?

You’re also telling me I’ve stuck my foot down my throat.

Then I apologize for hurting anyone’s feelings. Now I’ll have to find a Mass with confessions beforehand tomorrow.

It just looked to me like one of those baited traps that get lobbed in here so often. I am so SICK of being sucker-punched, and now there are MANIACS threating to start a war because the Pope used an example in his speech on the inseparability of faith and reason that illustrated this folly by presenting the incongruity of forced conversion demanded by Mohammed.

I received an accidental personal blessing from HFPJPG years ago, which after DECADES, I FINALLY started to allow to sprout a few little buds that could become fruit someday maybe. And I keep thinking that’s MY doing.

I looked into his ice-blue eyes, and he looked into mine. I figure that’s the reason for my emotional response to what I perceive as any attack on the Pope.

A very emotional day for us all, and again I’m sorry.

 

[AJV]

S.D.N. Benedict XVI just concluded the Angelus in which he said that the remarks did not reflect his own opinion. No news article up yet but there probably will be one in a few minutes.

 

[AJV]

S.D.N. Benedict XVI just concluded the Angelus in which he said that the remarks did not reflect his own opinion. No news article up yet but there probably will be one in a few minutes.

Ah, here it is:

A snippet from the article

CASTEL GANDOLFO, Italy - Pope Benedict XVI said Sunday that he was “deeply sorry” about the angry reaction to his recent remarks about Islam, which he said came from a text that didn’t reflect his personal opinion.

“These (words) were in fact a quotation from a Medieval text which do not in any way express my personal thought,” Benedict told pilgrims at his summer palace outside Rome.

The pope sparked the controversy when, in a speech to German university professors Tuesday, he cited the words of a Byzantine emperor who characterized some of the teachings of the Prophet Muhammad, Islam’s founder, as “evil and inhuman.”

“At this time I wish also to add that I am deeply sorry for the reactions in some countries to a few passages of my address at the University of Regensburg, which were considered offensive to the sensibility of Muslims,” the pope said Sunday

.

Full article here

 

[james1441]

A few words if i may. One thing about religous diplomacy is that, like that political and social diplomacy, it takes quite a few give and take. now regardless whether the extremists in islam are small or large, or whatever your opinion of the religon is is, the fact is both sides must accept the fact we gotta share this world together. obviously there are people on both sides who cant stand each others presense, but the last thing we need is for some party pooper on either side to allow us to react and rock the boat. remember that kid who in school would keep on poking you to get a reaction out of you? his whole idea was that you would. what we need to do is not to let the poking kid annoy us in these matters and find ways to make peace with each other (or at the very least make the situation tolerable) I think the pope mentioned this also in his speech. Of course we could always find ways of trying to make things better back, oh say 100 years ago, when there were very few problems at all between the jews, christians and muslims in the middle east, but thats a whole other topic.

 

[gilliam]

A few words if i may. One thing about religous diplomacy is that, like that political and social diplomacy, it takes quite a few give and take. now regardless whether the extremists in islam are small or large, or whatever your opinion of the religon is is, the fact is both sides must accept the fact we gotta share this world together. .

The goal of what you could call militant Islam is to take over the entire world and put it under Islamic Law. They won’t “share” the world with non-Muslims. Allah, in the Koran, instructs them to have non-Muslims submit. Their approach is more like the Borg on Star Trek then like the UN.

***“Those who study jihad will understand why Islam wants to conquer the whole ******world. All the countries conquered by Islam or to be conquered in the future will ******be marked for everlasting salvation. Islam says: Kill all the unbelievers just as ******they would kill you all!” ***
*** Ayatollah Ruhollah Khomeini, 1942

***“[The defense of the homeland] is not the ultimate objective of the Islamic *******movement of jihad, but it is a means of establishing the Divine authority within it ******so that it becomes the headquarters for the movement of Islam, which is then to ******be carries throughout the earth to the whole of mankind, as the object of this ******religion is all humanity and its sphere of action is the whole earth.” ***
*** Sayyid Qutb, 1955 ***

**

 

[james1441]

even if that is true, like i said, we shouldnt let them dictate the peace process. ignore them and embrace the muslims who are willing to work with you if thats whats necessary. isolate the extremists.

 

[gilliam]

even if that is true, like i said, we shouldnt let them dictate the peace process. ignore them and embrace the muslims who are willing to work with you if thats whats necessary. isolate the extremists.

That was our strategy for the last 50 years. You tell me how well that has worked out?

 

[james1441]

no, our strategy for the last 50 years was to butt into that regions buiness, propping up dictators and in general being a nuisance. you seem to have this mindset that american political and military might must be mixed in with individual, religous and social issues…indeed you seem to think they are all the same. A very dangerous mindset.

 

[gilliam]

no, our strategy for the last 50 years was to butt into that regions buiness, propping up dictators and in general being a nuisance. you seem to have this mindset that american political and military might must be mixed in with individual, religous and social issues…indeed you seem to think they are all the same. A very dangerous mindset.

No, I do not have that mindset and assuming you know what someone else is thinking is rude.

If you think that abandoning the mid east so that militant Islam can become stronger is somehow a solution to them taking over the world, I would like you to spell it out please?

 

[james1441]

im not mind reading or attempting to… im pretty much taking this from what you said. im simply doing 1+1 and guessing the answer is 2.

By the way, for people who are curious about wanting to get facts in the middle east and are concerned about a bias in any way, there is an excellent middle eastern catholic website ran by a lebanese maronite priest who is currently residing in California:

al-bushra.org/

unfortunatelt many of the older links are not up anymore but at least half of them still work.