Open Thread on Zimmerman Verdict

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Cider said:
As was already posted, SYG didn’t apply to this case.

But having said that, if you are trying to kill me, why should I have a first duty to retreat in the first place? Why? it’s not my job to protect you, the criminal trying to kill me, it’s my job to protect myself.
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You can demonstrate that Martin was trying to kill Zimmerman?
 
Cider said:
As was already posted, SYG didn’t apply to this case.

But having said that, if you are trying to kill me, why should I have a first duty to retreat in the first place? Why?
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The issue of SYG came about because it being hard to prove a negative. For example, CA used to have a duty to retreat even in your own home. The problem being, in every case the intruders lawyers would insist there was an avenue of retreat available. The burden ended up being on the homeowner trying to prove that at no point did they ever have an avenue to retreat. The homeowner should have left out the top story window at the first sound of a break in. Or, even with the intruder facing them and armed the homeowner could have run to the locked back door and unlocked it and ran out. Became very much a jury opinion on the reasonableness of turning your back on an armed person while having to run, then struggle with the locks…

Same things in public spaces. If there’s a duty to retreat, try and prove a woman who defends herself against rape never had the opportunity to run at some point. Regardless of whether you think she’d actually be successful at outrunning the attempted rapist.
 
gracepoole said:
You can demonstrate that Martin was trying to kill Zimmerman?
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The court verdict demonstrated it which found Zimmerman to be innocent which means that he was justified in what he did to protect his life from Martin’s MMA style attack on him. If Zimmerman would have been a racist who just wanted to go out and find a random black to shoot why didn’t he just shoot Martin from a distance?
 
FOX showed the cache of stolen jewelry this boy had hidden under his bed. He’s no angel.
 
gracepoole said:
You can demonstrate that Martin was trying to kill Zimmerman?
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The jury decided that it was reasonable that Zimmerman was in fear of imminent death or serious bodily injury.

They accepted his self-defense justification.
 
gracepoole said:
You can demonstrate that Martin was trying to kill Zimmerman?
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Well yes, bashing someones head into concrete repeatedly would indicate that you are trying to inflict great bodily harm or death. But I was asking a general question pertaining to your derision about stand your ground laws, which at their foundation are about no duty to retreat.

How about you answer the question I asked. If you are trying to kill me why should I have a duty to retreat before defending myself? If someone is attacking you do you think you should be required to retreat before legally being able to defend yourself? Why?
 
livingwordunity said:
The court verdict demonstrated it.
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Right. And the court verdict in the Simpson case demonstrated that OJ didn’t kill his wife. And the court verdict in the Anthony case demonstrated that Casey didn’t murder her daughter.
 
gracepoole said:
Right. And the court verdict in the Simpson case demonstrated that OJ didn’t kill his wife. And the court verdict in the Anthony case demonstrated that Casey didn’t murder her daughter.
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You’re avoiding the question.
 
Cider said:
Well yes, bashing someones head into concrete repeatedly would indicate that you are trying to inflict great bodily harm or death. But I was asking a general question pertaining to your derision about stand your ground laws, which at their foundation are about no duty to retreat.

How about you answer the question I asked. If you are trying to kill me why should I have a duty to retreat before defending myself?
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Obviously the problem is that the only witness of this supposed threat to Zimmerman’s life is dead. So if we agree that you shouldn’t have to “retreat before defending” yourself, you can abuse this law by painting an innocent person as your attacker. (Although as a Christian, I’d think that retreat would be the best option – Christians, by and large, aren’t called upon to be bloodthirsty when the possibility of retreat exists.)
 
gracepoole said:
Right. And the court verdict in the Simpson case demonstrated that OJ didn’t kill his wife. And the court verdict in the Anthony case demonstrated that Casey didn’t murder her daughter.
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If Zimmerman would have been a racist who just wanted to find a random black to shoot why didn’t he just shoot Martin from a distance? Besides, are you saying that you want America to be run by vigilante justice? Do you want to bring back lynchings?
 
livingwordunity said:
If Zimmerman would have been a racist who just wanted to find a random black to shoot why didn’t he just shoot Martin from a distance?
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First, the quote from me that you included was meant to demonstrate that at times, court verdicts have been anything but righteous. Second, I’m not racist, so it’s a bit difficult to guess at why a racist acts the way he does. For what it’s worth, I don’t think this case is about racism alone – it’s also about vigilantism. And I can’t imagine why you think I’m in support of vigilante justice.
 
gracepoole said:
Obviously the problem is that the only witness of this supposed threat to Zimmerman’s life is dead. So if we agree that you shouldn’t have to “retreat before defending” yourself, you can abuse this law by painting an innocent person as your attacker. (Although as a Christian, I’d think that retreat would be the best option – Christians, by and large, aren’t called upon to be bloodthirsty when the possibility of retreat exists.)
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You still didn’t answer the question.

Why should you have a duty to retreat if you are being attacked. You personally. The law doesn’t just apply to this case, it applies to everyone who lives in states with SYG.

The fact that you equate defending yourself against attack as bloodthirsty says a lot. The Catholic church teaches that defense of person or others is acceptable. We are not required to be pacifists and just lay down and offer ourselves up as sacrificial victims of criminals.

By the way, the only witness isn’t dead. More than one witness testified at trial that they saw Martin on Zimmerman pounding him.
 
gracepoole said:
First, the quote from me that you included was meant to demonstrate that at times, court verdicts have been anything but righteous. Second, I’m not racist, so it’s a bit difficult to guess at why a racist acts the way he does. For what it’s worth, I don’t think this case is about racism alone – it’s also about vigilantism.
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That’s ironic since you are the one who is advocating vigilantism by saying that we shouldn’t respect this court decision.
 
Carlan said:
Even though I accept the jury’s verdict ,I say also that just because Zimmerman wasn’t found guilty does not mean he did not murder that boy. It means the state did not prove it to that jury.
Eventually in the end George Simmerman, as we all will, must face his maker.
Peace, Carlan
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God is perfect justice and we can be happy with that here on this realm of existence.
Mary.
 
Cider said:
You still didn’t answer the question.

Why should you have a duty to retreat if you are being attacked. You personally. The law doesn’t just apply to this case, it applies to everyone who lives in states with SYG.

The fact that you equate defending yourself against attack as bloodthirsty says a lot. The Catholic church teaches that defense of person or others is acceptable. We are not required to be pacifists and just lay down and offer ourselves up as sacrificial victims of criminals.
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If retreat is a viable option, I wouldn’t be “offering [myself] up as [a] sacrificial victim.”
 
livingwordunity said:
That’s ironic since you are the one who is advocating vigilantism by saying that we shouldn’t respect this court decision.
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When did I claim that we shouldn’t respect this court decision? I don’t think there’s a choice but to do so in a respectable society. That doesn’t mean one has to agree that it’s righteous. I don’t believe people should hunt Zimmerman down.
 
gracepoole said:
If retreat is a viable option, I wouldn’t be “offering [myself] up as [a] sacrificial victim.”
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I don’t get your point. You don’t respect the court decision. So do you want to bring back lynchings and have Zimmerman lynched?
 
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